Promising changes... where do we stand with Pete Carmichael? (1 Viewer)

[BreesusSaves]

I will give PC a chance.

That said, if it is the same old bs... then... well...

 

[Noisemaker]

Where we stand is PC is our OC and I support him 100% while he is in that role. Having a better veteran QB will help him a lot. I expect great production this year!

 

[PBsWhodat]

Brees in 2012 with Pete calling plays - 5,177 yards and 43 TDs, one of his best seasons.

How much of this was drew calling/changing plays?

 

[Rexman100]

I don't know if there is a stand with or stand against but there definitely isn't a stand without unless you're willing to go an entire season without turning on tv, checking the internet or talking to your neighbours. I think, with both he and Allen, you're in the same boat. Either way, its is what it is. Gayle won't call me back so I can't convince her to hand over the reigns to me, or another coach. So we're heading into the season with what we have, both Allen and Carmichael. Those of us who are debby downers and those of you (not pointing fingers) who are eternal optimists are in the same boat. I can say this, and I said it in another thread. I have been very critical of Allen and Co since Payton retired. I wasn't for hiring him, I saw the reasons of continuity and the logic made some sense. However, the one thing they have done is recognize player deficiencies and move to correct those deficiencies. I wasn't for trading with Philly but they had a plan. Get a WR to compliment MT and get a franchise LT. They executed that plan. We can all talk about hindsight, what we could have gotten had we not and had the 10th pick this year but they filled what they thought were the needs (and they were needs). MT fell off on injury again, Penning got injured but their plan was sound, though we can argue execution. Same goes this year, they saw needs, RB/DT/QB and moved to fill those needs. For all the great things I can say about Payton and Co. (and I know Mickey was part of that), there were several years (more than often) where we as fans, the media and possibly everyone saw position groups that continued to be ignored off-season after off-season. DA and ML have gone into the last 2 seasons at least addressing obvious deficiencies in player personnel. They've filled those needs when in years past we might not have. For all the fault's I've been able to come up with that is one positive that is an outlier to the rest. I don't think it translates personally, because I still have little to no faith in Allen or Carmichael leading this team. My only optimism in that is hopefully Carr has enough control and leadership to offset with Allen and Carmichael lack. But again, we're on the ride, sit back and enjoy, because it aint changing.

It’s fair to judge DA/PC as a unit, because they haven’t done It yet. Individually they both have done it, many many times over successfully.

I too give them credit for filling in obvious needs and not ignoring some positions. Sean Paytons drafts had everyone questioning reality. It was easier to pick the lottery numbers than it would be to guess who the Saints were drafting in the first round. Not just the player but the position was impossible to predict. Now, life is making sense. Always remember this! young people are dumb. The younger SP thought he was outsmarting everyone else by drafting obscure small college guys when there were higher ranked known guys in front of them. (Yea, I know that we hit on a few small school guys but how many have failed). My point is that ppl get smarter over time. DA and PC will be fine as long as they have healthy pieces to work with. And unfortunately, SP will be as well. Brilliantly, he’s already hedged his bet at QB by signing Stidham from LV. (i was kind of hoping he’d crash and burn at Den w/ RW) But he’s now prepared in case RW regresses again.

 

[BigDSaintsFan]

I think his main problem is lack of confidence and a timid personality. He needs to be in the booth instead of on the sideline.

You can see the fear in his face and body language when he's out in the open.

Yep, he looks so uncomfortable on the sidelines.

 

[BreesusSaves]

How much of this was drew calling/changing plays?

Based on last season, that was all Brees doing Brees things.

Now if the offense this year actually looks competent, then we need to give some credit to Carmichael as well. But right now, trying to give any credit to Carmichael for Brees' 2012 season is foolish. A 13.6ppg average for the final nine games normally results in most of an offensive coaching staff getting fired.

 

[DCTransplant]

I think his main problem is lack of confidence and a timid personality. He needs to be in the booth instead of on the sideline.

You can see the fear in his face and body language when he's out in the open.

At what point did we start talking about Andy Dalton??

 

[Optimistic Ozzy]

The one thing I am most excited about with Carr as the QB...............an injection of common sense play calling at the line of scrimmage. Not some scripted BS like we saw last year.

 

[SWJJ]

Drew and Pete worked together to analyze coverages. Pete would send in 2-3 different plays, Drew would get to the line quickly and read the defense, use motion to create mismatches, and call one of 2 or 3 pre-selected plays.

THIS IS THE SAME THING GRUDEN DID WITH CARR.

Pete has not had anyone close to Drew when it comes to a QB with Superior PreSnap recognition, until now.

I expect a lot of people will be eating crow when it comes to Pete, by midseason or so.

 

[nakadish]

How much of this was drew calling/changing plays?

Probably a lot. That's what Payton/PC expect the QB to do. How much of last season was AD NOT changing the play based on the defense? Probably a lot.

Carr is good at the kind of offense the Saints like to run. Think of his best years with the Raiders. That's why he came here for less money.

 

[jahsoul357]

Nope...not buying into that. PC called the plays, if he hamstrung a QB because he didn't feel confident in the QB, then he cut their knees off and set them up to fail.

We were told "Winston can't read pre-snap" then we were told "Dalton has a photographic memory" but the product on the field showed nothing with either. So....to me that falls on the OC's inability to field an effective attack....the QBs are just the scapegoats.

A concept that people can't seem to understand. Let's cripple a QB and then blame them for failing (unless it's a QB that we like, and then it's the coaches fault). lol
At the end of the day, coaching and scheming ties directly into a QB being successful. If Derek Carr ran the offense that we ran this past season, we wasted our money and should have kept Dalton.

Nope...because he took a QB that can put up numbers and cut his balls off with ineffective play calling. You call a series of 4 yard curls and throw a token deep route over the top and the QB waits to see if the deep is open then tries to come back to a curl if it isn't...he's going to have nowhere to go with the ball.

Our system was stale...plain and simple, you watch Minnesota or Buffalo play you constantly see receivers schemed open 10, 15 yards downfield consistently, we were micromanaging the QB position...telling our QBs throw to this guy at this point or there will be nothing else, and if they missed that window, they were stuck looking at 4 receivers at the end of their short routes.

Here is the irony in all of their posting....

-They claim that Pete cut the balls off 2022 QB1 because he didn't trust him
-They then claim that our new QB looked like crap last season because the coach cut his balls off.

Whole lotta Juelzing going on.

Drew and Pete worked together to analyze coverages. Pete would send in 2-3 different plays, Drew would get to the line quickly and read the defense, use motion to create mismatches, and call one of 2 or 3 pre-selected plays.

THIS IS THE SAME THING GRUDEN DID WITH CARR.

Pete has not had anyone close to Drew when it comes to a QB with Superior PreSnap recognition, until now.

I expect a lot of people will be eating crow when it comes to Pete, by midseason or so.

Where was that "superior pre-snap recognition" for the Raiders when they were near or at the bottom of the league in red zone conversion rate that past 5-6 season?

 

[DSnfla]

How much of this was drew calling/changing plays?

Drew would go to the line with 2-3 plays he could check into. Those 2-3 plays were called by PC. Most of the time he would not check out of the play called. And if changes were made it might only be flip the side or maybe a formation. Sometimes it would be to change it from run to pass or pass to run. It's not like DB called a whole new play and formation. PC and SP just gave him options within a framework

 

[Whodat GT]

Just to play devil's advocate, do you think some of Pete's struggles last year were a result of having Jameis Winston and Andy Dalton under Center? We talk about players possibly being better with more talent around them but might the same be true for an OC?

I'm not a believer in Pete. Never have been. For an OC to have that kind of success and never get a HC gig is pretty telling. It was the SP & Brees show and everyone knew it. He was Fredo but then Fredo was given control of the family. The result was predictable. But what if Fredo had strong capos and a top notch consigliere? Could Fredo make it work? I guess we'll see.

I´m sure he was always in the shadow of one of the best offensive playcallers and a HOF QB, I mean, how could he not be in the shadow of both of them? This doesn´t mean that he can´t grow into his own person/style, but it takes time. I sure wish I'd know more about the info that he didn´t want to take on the OC role when it became available.

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

Drew would go to the line with 2-3 plays he could check into. Those 2-3 plays were called by PC. Most of the time he would not check out of the play called. And if changes were made it might only be flip the side or maybe a formation. Sometimes it would be to change it from run to pass or pass to run. It's not like DB called a whole new play and formation. PC and SP just gave him options within a framework

Ok...so why didn't they do that any at all last year?

 

[DSnfla]

A concept that people can't seem to understand. Let's cripple a QB and then blame them for failing (unless it's a QB that we like, and then it's the coaches fault). lol
At the end of the day, coaching and scheming ties directly into a QB being successful. If Derek Carr ran the offense that we ran this past season, we wasted our money and should have kept Dalton.


Here is the irony in all of their posting....

-They claim that Pete cut the balls off 2022 QB1 because he didn't trust him
-They then claim that our new QB looked like crap last season because the coach cut his balls off.

Whole lotta Juelzing going on.

Where was that "superior pre-snap recognition" for the Raiders when they were near or at the bottom of the league in red zone conversion rate that past 5-6 season?

Same old story , it's never the QB only bad coaching and scheming. I'm guessing that you think all Ryan Leaf needed was a HOF/ Offensive Genius and a team loaded with talent. SMH. Also you must have missed the multiple reports that McDaniels DID NOT want Carr changing the play at the LOS taking away one of the things DC does best