Put affirmative action to a vote? 5 states may put it on the ballot (1 Viewer)

DadsDream

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Leesville, Louisiana native Ward Connerly, whose ancestry includes African-American and Native American, is leading a group called the American Civil Rights Coalition.

His opinion is that Affirmitive Action causes too much resentment and he has criticized cases when a college denies a Caucasian student slot in favor of a black student with a lower grade-point average.

"It's foolish not to think that the kid who is turned away is not going to ... resent that," Connerly said.

His group supports a vote on an "Action Civil Rights Initiative" which would effectively end Affirmative Action. It has already passed in California, Michigan and Washington.

This fall, initiatives in Arizona, Colorado, Missouri, Nebraska and Oklahoma would put the following language to a vote to become law:

"The state shall not discriminate against or grant preferential treatment to any individual or group on the basis of race, sex, color, ethnicity or national origin in the operation of public employment, public education or public contracting."

Equally opposed is Shanta Driver, National Director of United for Equality and Affirmative Action Legal Defense Fund, who calls Connerly's efforts a "giant step backwards."

Touchy subject, especially in our part of the country, LA, MS, AR, TX and FL included.

READ MORE
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/07/affirmative.action/index.html

Let's have some thoughts and opinions without the David Duke or Al Sharpton posturing.

I'll give my opinion as this rolls along, if it rolls along.

Is it time to end Affirmative Action?
 

Saintman2884

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Very good foresight by this man IMHO. He knows what a lot of people may be thinking but are afraid to say because of the PC police coming in and shutting them up. It makes sense I suppose if it works right in theory and it supposed to give everybody a fair shot and I support that. I want everybody to have a fair chance. But put the human equation in to the matter and you have problems because of bias by employers and favoritism on both sides of the aisle. I go on what ever comes into by a compromise. Look at it pragmatically. If we can make it to where everybody gets something and the less amount of people not getting screwed is their, then yes it is workable.
 

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Discrimination sucks.

However, ...for the initiative to be on the November ballot.

Seems like a bit of a wedge issue for the November ballot. :shrug:

TPS
 
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DadsDream

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Interesting choice of states for November too.
 

Oye

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Affirmative action as it is typically employed misses the point, I believe. It doesn't fix the problem of lack of equality and competitive bias.

Interesting story about the son of close family friend here - he's an educated white guy whose first name is Tyrone. He applied for a number of jobs and managed to get very few calls - and was unable to secure a job in his field commensurate with his education.

He legally changed his name to Tyler.

He was hired as a certified accountant six days later at a reputable downtown firm.

Anyone who believes that there is equal opportunity and no racial bias are deluding themselves.

Affirmative action should target this sort of ignorance, but it doesn't do it effectively. I think something needs to be done, but such simple approaches are inherently flawed.

I don't have a problem with the Rooney Rule though, either.
 

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As a business owner, I have hired and fired a few people over the years. I have done business with many suppliers who have many employees themselves and my oponion is that race does not factor in who will be a good or bad employee whatsoever. When it all goes down to the core, human nature is the same in all of us. Affirmative action assumes that some businesses won't hire blacks out of racial or cultural prejudice and that is probably true of some businesses. Legislating who companies can hire from time to time won't fix this problem. To me this is a condition of the soul. I for one do not want to let one good potential worker walk out of my door for any reason. There are too few of them. go Saints!
 
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DadsDream

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Teaching soldiers the official US Army doctrine about Affirmative Action always drew a lot of discussion, disbelief and amazement.

First, my lesson plan would emphasize that Affirmative Action is not a quota system.

Next, it would say that we should always seek to place the most qualified person in a given position.

Then, it would say that Affirmative Action is a series of goals set to redress past discrimination against minorities and women.

"Wait a minute, sarge, that's a quota system!" some soldier would invariably pipe up.

"No, it's not a quota system," I'd answer.

"How can it not be?" another would ask.

"Because offical policy said it's not," I'd answer.

The debate would rage on for a while, but without fail and regardless of the class demographics, roughly 90% of the class would say Affirmative Action was unfair and needs to end. They accepted and understood it as official policy, but they didn't like it.

Personally, my miltary career was topped out when the State of Louisiana's Affirmative Action Plan passed me over for another person.

I was far more qualified than he, with more time in grade, more time in service, more military education, more civilian education. It didn't matter. When I applied for the position that was about to come open, I was called into the commander's office and asked to withdraw my application.

"You can apply for the job and you might even force them to give it to you, but if you do, you won't keep it for long, and your career will be finished" the commander said ominously.

So, I agreed to play ball. I withdrew my application, the less qualified African-American got the promotion and became my supervisor.

They awarded me the Louisiana Cross of Merit, second highest award the state gives.

Meanwhile, my new supervisor immediately began giving me negative reviews, the first I'd ever gotten in 15 years of service.

So, I retired.

Anyway, I agree with TPS, these folks are using this as a wedge issue if they put it on the November ballot with all that entails. More and more special interest groups will invariably seek to bring their causes to the fore and turn the November election into a referendum as well.

It'll be interesting to see how the candidates and parties handle this. Affirmative Action has been a plank in the Democratic platform since the 1970s.

Personally, I think that just like forced busing, it's an idea whose time has passed.
 

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I would be in favor of abolishing affirmative action when those minorities who are indeed more qualified do have some sort of protection. I especially believe that companies targeting minority consumers (Nike, GM, etc) should make a conscious effort to recruit and offer the same opportunities of advancement to qualified minority employees.

On a side note, I'd like to add that people often cite examples of a less qualified minority taking a coveted position, while many more qualified minorities have accepted that they will probably be passed over as a fact of life.
 
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TDH

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Funny, we seem to value individuality more in ourselves than in others.
 
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DadsDream

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I would be in favor of abolishing affirmation action when those minorities who are indeed more qualified do have some sort of protection. I especially believe that companies targeting minority consumers (Nike, GM, etc) should make a conscious effort to recruit and offer the same opportunities of advancement to qualified minority employees.

On a side note, I'd like to add that people often cite examples of a less qualified minority taking a coveted position, while many more qualified minorities have accepted that they will probably be passed over as a fact of life.
Agreed. I can only relate how Affirmative Action affected me, from my perspective.

It's not the only perspecive and that's what makes the EE Board a valuable source of input and perspecives from across the board.

There are companies and groups of people out there who find ways to turn away potenital employees based on race. No question about it. But, they're become fewer and fewer in my lifetime. Likewise, their methods of disqualifcation have become more and more subtle and less direct.

But, like forced busing, Affirmative Action has generated a lot of heat.

In the end, it wasn't that forced busing achieved what was envisioned. In the end, the price of fuel made forced busing econmically suicidal for school districts. By the time US District Judge Naumann Scott died, most everybody agreed that it made no sense to pay more money for busing than the salaries of the teachers in a school district.

I bring up busing along with Affirmative Action because the two were essentially enacted together and had a huge impact on all of our lives here in Louisiana at the time.

Thanks for your input, Zulu-King. Different viewpoints are exactly what's needed here, not universal condemnation.
 

LSSpam

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I especially believe that companies targeting minority consumers (Nike, GM, etc) should make a conscious effort to recruit and offer the same opportunities of advancement to qualified minority employees.
That's the responsibility of the consumer, not the government. Since companies like Nike target minority consumers they have precisely the sort of leverage needed to force them to address that demographics concerns. If you want more out of a company like that, demand it. I think it's unfair to expect the government to step in a specific instance like that.

As far as the thread on the whole. I'm in favor of continued quotas for Universities and the like, but don't feel job-place affirmative action at this point addresses the core problems in the black community and therefore is a net negative rather then a net positive. But I'm not dug into that position.
 

Bishop

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The shift today seems to be more focused on minorities forging our own paths by creating businesses, not demanding equal rights from most entrenched companies. I can cite many efforts of consumers forcing moves in the corporate arena in the past. Change has been implemented as a result of these movements, along with Fed decree.

I believe civil rights in the workplace is as much a responsibility of the government as it is protecting equal rights in the justice system, etc. Minorities pay taxes, contribute, and sacrifice our lives for this nation, so we demand government intervention when called upon to guarantee equal opportunities in all facets of life.

I'm not sure what you mean by affirmative action addressing the core problems in the black community.
 
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Det. Brees

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my only problem with a.a. is it teaches what we are trying to get away from.
and that is hiring and promoting someone due to the color of their skin. skin color should not be a factor.
 

Bishop

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Our beefs should be with the entities causing these laws to be necessary in the first place.
 

LSSpam

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I believe civil rights in the workplace is as much a responsibility of the government as it is protecting equal rights in the justice system, etc. Minorities pay taxes, contribute, and sacrifice our lives for this nation, so we demand government intervention when called upon to guarantee equal opportunities in all facets of life.
Sure, but you're referring to (I assumed) a "glass ceiling effect" at companies like Nike, which is particularly unjust considering the demographic they target. I agree, that would not only be "unfair", it strikes me as fundamentally stupid (why wouldn't Nike want to be more heavily represented by the very demographic they're trying to sell too?).

Asking the Government to step into an extremely specific instance like that I consider to be inefficient and not a "best use" practice. The obvious answer, if that's a real problem, is to simply draw attention to the issue and buy less Nike goods. It's not like that sort of public campaign wouldn't be (and hasn't been in the past) very effective. The Free Market is powerful.

I guess what I'm saying is you're not helpless in this instance. It's not similar to Jim Crow laws in the South. The black community has leverage in this instance and can create change far more easily then the Federal Government could. If it cared.

Of course if the "trend" is "The shift today seems to be more focused on minorities forging our own paths by creating businesses, not demanding equal rights from most entrenched companies." then perhaps it's not a priority. :shrug:

Zulu-King said:
I'm not sure what you mean by affirmative action addressing the core problems in the black community.
The quality of education and level of crime/violence in impoverished areas.
 

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