Put me in the QB change camp (2 Viewers)

[StudioSaint]

I'm looking at it from an all things being equal standpoint. I'm saying that if we sit Winston and bring in Dalton and the problems improve, then the problem was Winston. If we sit Winston and the problems persist then it would naturally flow that Winston wasn't as big of the problem as is being portrayed now.

Poor oline play, drive killing fumbles and penalties and unimaginative play calling can make even the best QB look bad or appear to be the problem. Understand that I've never said that Winston wasn't part of the problem. I'm saying that there are other important problems that have contributed to the team's failures. You wouldn't know it from some of these posts.

In that scenario, it could also be that Dalton is just as problematic as Winston. It doesn't necessarily indicate that Winston isn't a part of the problem.

 

[Infoman]

We have quite literally done all our best offensive work once the opposition has had a big lead and already kicked our ace for 3 quarters. Time to make a change.

 

[El Caliente]

jimmy G > Baker > Jameis

 

[Saintamaniac]

It doesn't necessarily indicate that Winston isn't a part of the problem.

And that's exactly why I've never said that Winston isn't part of the problem.

 

[Judge_Smails]

And that's exactly why I've never said that Winston isn't part of the problem.

 

[Brandon13]

jimmy G > Baker > Jameis

Jimmy G yes but I thought Baker looked as bad or worse than Jameis.

 

[StudioSaint]

And that's exactly why I've never said that Winston isn't part of the problem.

I was speaking unclearly in response to you saying this:

I'm saying that if we sit Winston and bring in Dalton and the problems improve, then the problem was Winston. If we sit Winston and the problems persist then it would naturally flow that Winston wasn't as big of the problem as is being portrayed now.

Poor oline play, drive killing fumbles and penalties and unimaginative play calling can make even the best QB look bad or appear to be the problem. Understand that I've never said that Winston wasn't part of the problem. I'm saying that there are other important problems that have contributed to the team's failures. You wouldn't know it from some of these posts.

What I was trying to convey was that if the same problems persist with Dalton as with Winston, that doesn't necessarily prove that Winston isn't as big a part of those problem as Winston is being portrayed.

It could also mean that Dalton is just as big a part of those problem as Winston is currently being portrayed.

The problems could persist with both players, because they both are as big a contribution to those problems as people are portraying Winston currently is. Both having equal results in no way proves that Winston is not as big a part of the persistent problems as people are portraying him to be.

Problems persisting with both players does not mean they are not both contributing to those problems as much as people see Winston contributing to those current problems.

 

[TheRealJRad]

I had to turn it off early today, but even the passes that were being caught looked off target. He needs to either sit and heal, or sit and get his head right.

 

[ilvdsnts]

Except he didn’t. Don’t look at the yards. Look at the poor decisions and the missed throws through 3.5 quarters.

I wanted it to work. And maybe it will when he’s healthy. But it’s not right now.

Thats the issue, “when healthy”, and he’s not right now and its unfair to him to keep him in the game when he can’t perform at his best. He was 6-2 with a 16/3 TD/INT ratio as a healthy Saint. He’s 0-2 2/5 playing hurt. We have a healthy backup with 148 career starts, .527 winning % and over 35,000 yards, this is why we signed him, in case Jameis git hurt, HE DID! I’m not saying bench Jameis, just let him heal.

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

Jimmy G yes but I thought Baker looked as bad or worse than Jameis.

This Jimmy G?!?!?!?!?



That mofo gave up 9 points in one play

 

[El Caliente]

Has anyone checked in on Jameis 1 of 1? Poor bastage is probably on suicide watch.

 

[inetnawlins]

lol you may not remember but I’m sure a lot of other people do
When Brees messed up them ribs
We was calling for taysom hill and Jameis lol that’s a fact maybe not everybody but a good 65%

Yes, he was injured but he didn’t throw it up for grabs everytime somebody got close.

 

[meily]

He’s Wentz, Goff, Tannehill, etc. which is not good enough. But we already knew that. Not sure what others were expecting really. Everything else has to be perfect for us to win with him at QB.

Serviceable player who needs to be protected by a strong defense and run game.

 

[jahsoul357]

Here's the complete breakdown of the Saints Receiving Yardage, Average Yards per reception, YAC and Average YAC, for each player, Receivers as group, RB's as a group and team totals. These numbers are based on the source you quoted above.

Player	Rec	Yds	Avg	Lg	YAC	% YAC
Jimmy Graham	99​	1,310​	13.23​	59​	457​	34.89%​
Marques Colston	80​	1,143​	14.29​	50​	253​	22.13%​
Lance Moore	52​	627​	12.06​	47t	157​	25.04%​
Robert Meachem	40​	620​	15.50​	67t	104​	16.77%​
Devery Henderson	32​	503​	15.72​	79t	174​	34.59%​
David Thomas	5​	16​	3.20​	8​	13​	81.25%​
John Gilmore	3​	20​	6.67​	9​	12​	60.00%​
Adrian Arrington	2​	31​	15.50​	17​	0​	0.00%​
Michael Higgins	1​	4​	4.00​	4​	2​	50.00%​
Receivers Total	314​	4,274​	13.61​		1,172​	27.42%​
Player	Rec	Yds	Avg	Lg	YAC	% YAC
Darren Sproles	86​	710​	8.26​	39​	712​	100.28%​
Pierre Thomas	50​	425​	8.50​	57​	468​	110.12%​
Jed Collins	11​	50​	4.55​	14​	52​	104.00%​
Mark Ingram	11​	46​	4.18​	9​	40​	86.96%​
RB's Total	158​	1,231​	7.79​		1,272​	103.33%​
Saints Total	472​	5,505​	11.66​		2,444​	44.40%​

What the numbers objectively shows is that most of the Saints passing yards were from short and intermediate passes. 13.61 yards per reception with 27.42% of receiving yards after a catch objectively show that.

Were there some deep passes, absolutely. Was it the primary focus or production of the offense, absolutely not.

You dismiss the RB's YAC, but the RB's accounted for 22% of the receiving yards.

Drew's first look, more often than not, was away from where he actually wanted to go with the ball. Just like the defenses that faced him, thinking his first look is his first intention is a big mistake.

If you look at where Brees actually threw the ball, the vast majority of those throws is spread out horizontally within 15 yards of the line of scrimmage and the majority of those being with 15 yards of the line of scrimmage.

That and so many designed passes to RB's is a lot more in line with the West Coast Offense than Air Coryell system.

The thing that's tripping you up is that the deep throws make such a lasting impression that they lead us to the false belief that they happened at a higher percentage than they actually did.

Every offense occasionally takes deep shots. That doesn't make them Air Coryell.

Deep passes don't make the Air Coryell and nothing in my post says that. VERY HIGH LEVEL, the Air Coryell puts a great emphasis on intermediate/deep passes while having the shorter passes covered by RBs and TEs. Now let's take a look at your breakdown and actually looking at our primary receivers actual YPC.

Jimmy Graham - YBC: 853 yards (8.6 YPC)/YAC: 457 (4.6 YPC)
Marques Colston - YBC: 890 yards (11.1 YPC)/YAC: 253 (3 YPC)
Lance Moore - YBC: 470 (9 YPC)/YAC (3 YPC)
Robert Meachem - YBC: 516 yards (12.9 YPC)/YAC: 104 (2.6 YPC)
Devery Henderson - YBC: 329 yards (10.3 YPC)/YAC: 174 (5.4 YPC)

If it wasn't for Lance Moore (LOL), all of our primary receivers in 2011 would have averaged over 10 yards traveled in the air. And this goes right back into the point that I was making. You will find very few offenses that would have anything like this today. Matter of fact, only 2 tight ends last year had more yards before catch that Jimmy Graham and Tyler Lockett was the only WR1 that had more YBC than Colston.

So coming back to the point; the vast majority of Drew Brees' passes to his WRs were intermediate to deep while RB and TEs handle short to intermediate. That's not a Walsh West Coast Offense; we spread defenses vertically and it showed with not only the amount of receptions Graham and Sproles had (exploiting the underneath) but the depth of throw. Not only that; our run game was skrong, so our play action was highly effective. Our receivers weren't living in the "<10" zone.

Really? You need me to explain how he’s been bad and do it without mentioning his worst season in this league that was also his most recent full season as a starter?

Here are a list of Winston’s biggest problems that have existed his whole NFL career. You can watch just about any game from 2015 onwards and you’ll see some or all of these issues:
1. Struggles to read the field and regularly doesn’t see wide open receivers.
2. Inaccurate in the short/intermediate passing game.
3. Can’t diagnose where pressure is coming from and seems incapable of being able to call an audible consistently.
4. Has a propensity to throw interceptions.
5. Holds the ball too long because he can’t process what is happening in front of him.

Through 3 games he may be the worst starting QB in the league because he is doing literally nothing at this point.

1, Most QBs do as well, when you actually watch the games, but Jameis has been missed some open receivers the past few weeks. This is has been a valid issue the past few games
2. Jameis is more accurate in intermediate passes than Mahomes, Allen, and Herbert (and this is while throwing it at a MUCH higher clip) while being 2-3 percentage points off in short throws (while still being above 70%).
3. You do know defenses can disguise pressure and considering most of everyone's favorite's QBs (Mahomes, Allen, Burrow) are either running for their life or getting sacked like crazy, it seems like they suck at it as well
4. As do all quarterbacks but was that your critique with Drew when he was throwing interceptions in the high teens to twenties?
5. His offense in Tampa played a part in that, considering it had a heavy focus on the long pass. You did know that right?

And if you think in 3 games he has been the worst starting QB, I know for sure you don't watch football outside of the Saints, because I've been seeing some bad football. There were plenty QBs that played worst than him today.

I'm all about criticism when it is based on facts but when you have nothing to back up what you are saying, it is just an opinion.

 

[BarBar]

WInston might not grasp it, but Pete Carmichael doesn't either. The playcalling is predictable outside of when we go up tempo. But for 80% of the game, I can tell by down/distance and who is in the game what we're going to call. If I can do that from my couch, defenses who watch hours of film absolutely know what's coming most of the time.

Running Sean Payton's offense without him here was an enormous mistake. There are only a handful of elite QB's in this game, I don't think anyone here would argue that Jameis is one of them. But smarter money would have been to take our time and bring in a fresh face to run this offense to cater to the men on this roster. We failed at that as a front office.

I thought the same last year when they hired PC as offensive Coordinator. Running a watered down version of SP offense is a horrible idea. We needed someone with their own vision who can build an offensive scheme around the players we have. I do not believe that Carmichael can do that. If he had DB9 he would probably be fine because his quick reads were the best.

They need to figure out what Winston is good at and do those things instead of trying to turn him into Drew Brees. It isn't gonna happen. They have ruined him. He was much better in Tampa than he is now.

Our coaching staff is bad and they are mostly to blame for the losses.