Put me in the QB change camp (1 Viewer)

[jahsoul357]

I thought the same last year when they hired PC as offensive Coordinator. Running a watered down version of SP offense is a horrible idea. We needed someone with their own vision who can build an offensive scheme around the players we have. I do not believe that Carmichael can do that. If he had DB9 he would probably be fine because his quick reads were the best.

They need to figure out what Winston is good at and do those things instead of trying to turn him into Drew Brees. It isn't gonna happen. They have ruined him. He was much better in Tampa than he is now.

Our coaching staff is bad and they are mostly to blame for the losses.

Honestly, Jameis would be a perfect fit for the offense that Brees ran in him prime. If anyone looks at tape from 2009 - 2015, it is clear as day but once upon a time, but there is no "franchise QB" that fits a scheme. They build the scheme around them, but with all of the complaints about Jameis not being a fit for the offense, you would think people would know that.

This Jimmy G?!?!?!?!?



That mofo gave up 9 points in one play

Not only that but we are sitting up here talking about benching Jameis when he is playing better than a QB the Broncos gave up 250 million and a boatload a draft picks for. You can't make this stuff up.

@madsaint1967
Since you have time to give me a "clown," take a second to talk about it.

 

[Lord Stanley]

Still amazes how much our fans were backing him in the off-season. What did people actually expect from a guy who’s been bad since he entered the league in 2015. To think there were people who were genuinely happy that we didn’t get Deshaun Watson.

Hopefully most have learned by now the pumper view many share led by Underhill is uninformed.

 

[StudioSaint]

Deep passes don't make the Air Coryell and nothing in my post says that. VERY HIGH LEVEL, the Air Coryell puts a great emphasis on intermediate/deep passes...

First off, my definition of a deep pass is any pass caught at a depth of 20 or more yards from the line of scrimmage. Keep in mind that Brees threw a lot of long passes that were caught around 15 yards pass the line of scrimmage near the sideline.

Those are intermediate passes, but they look like long passes because they travel a long distance in the air to get to the sideline. If you are counting those as deep passes, then we are probably thinking the same thing, just using different terminology.

Payton's offense has always put emphasis on screens, short RB choice routes, short passes and intermediate passes. He includes deep plays, but he has never placed an emphasis on long pass plays like Coryell did. He's even on the record several times as saying they like to take about 2 shot plays per game. That's no where near emphasizing deep passes. Coryell use to take at least 2 shot plays per possession. That's the big difference.

Jimmy Graham - YBC: 853 yards (8.6 YPC)/YAC: 457 (4.6 YPC)
Marques Colston - YBC: 890 yards (11.1 YPC)/YAC: 253 (3 YPC)
Lance Moore - YBC: 470 (9 YPC)/YAC (3 YPC)
Robert Meachem - YBC: 516 yards (12.9 YPC)/YAC: 104 (2.6 YPC)
Devery Henderson - YBC: 329 yards (10.3 YPC)/YAC: 174 (5.4 YPC)

If it wasn't for Lance Moore (LOL), all of our primary receivers in 2011 would have averaged over 10 yards traveled in the air. And this goes right back into the point that I was making.

I said that most passes were targeted and thrown within 15 yards of the line of scrimmage. That shows an emphasis on the short to intermediate routes, not the deep routes.

Let's look at the stats for everyone sorted by the most receptions to the fewest:

Player	Rec	Average /Catch	YAC	Average YAC /Catch	Average Distance /Pass
Jimmy Graham	99	13.23	457	4.62	8.61
Darren Sproles	86	8.26	712	8.28	-0.02
Marques Colston	80	14.29	253	3.16	11.13
Lance Moore	52	12.06	157	3.02	9.04
Pierre Thomas	50	8.50	468	9.36	-0.86
Robert Meachem	40	15.50	104	2.60	12.90
Devery Henderson	32	15.72	174	5.44	10.28
Jed Collins	11	4.55	52	4.73	-0.18
Mark Ingram	11	4.18	40	3.64	0.54
David Thomas	5	3.20	13	2.60	0.60
John Gilmore	3	6.67	12	4.00	2.67
Adrian Arrington	2	15.50	0	0.00	15.50
Michael Higgins	1	4.00	2	2.00	2.00

The overwhelming emphasis of passes were clearly thrown in the short to intermediate range, not the intermediate to deep range.

So coming back to the point; the vast majority of Drew Brees' passes to his WRs were intermediate to deep while RB and TEs handle short to intermediate.

The vast majority of all of Brees' passes were in short to intermediate, less than 20 yards from the line of scrimmage. You keep acting like passes to RB and TE's don't count as his passes or that they weren't an emphasis of the offense.

Even if you carve out just the WR's, he still threw most of those passes within the short to intermediate range, less than 20 yards from the line of scrimmage.

A significant amount of those short passes to RB's were primary reads. They were a significant part of the emphasis of the passing game.

That's not a Walsh West Coast Offense...

I specifically said Payton ran his own version of the West Coast offense that spread teams vertically as much as horizontally. I never said he ran the Walsh West Coast offense.

I also said he emphasized intermediate passes more than Walsh's WCO.

...; we spread defenses vertically and it showed with not only the amount of receptions Graham and Sproles had (exploiting the underneath) but the depth of throw.

Average depth of throws for Graham was 8.61 yards. Average depth of throws for Sproles was -0.02, that's not a typo.

You seem to be mis-remembering Graham's and Sproles' big gains as mostly long throws. They were not. They were mostly short to intermediate throws that they broke for long gains. That's true of most of the big passing plays by WR's too. Most of them were caught within 20 yards of the line of scrimmage followed by long YAC gains.

 

[SigFreudianSlip]

I thought the same last year when they hired PC as offensive Coordinator. Running a watered down version of SP offense is a horrible idea. We needed someone with their own vision who can build an offensive scheme around the players we have. I do not believe that Carmichael can do that. If he had DB9 he would probably be fine because his quick reads were the best.

They need to figure out what Winston is good at and do those things instead of trying to turn him into Drew Brees. It isn't gonna happen. They have ruined him. He was much better in Tampa than he is now.

Our coaching staff is bad and they are mostly to blame for the losses.

Very good post. I also think Jameis was way better in Tampa, so that’s squarely on our coaching.

 

[SigFreudianSlip]

Hopefully most have learned by now the pumper view many share led by Underhill is uninformed.

He’s the best of the bunch but he is definitely still a sunshine pumper. I wish we had at least one local beat writer who wasn’t/isn’t afraid to speak the truth.

 

[Bayouboy]

Amen. I wrote something similar after last game. You want Jameis to succeed.....he's worked for it and earned the opportunity, but the writing is on the wall. A change should be made ASAP. If Dalton is no better, they have to look outside of the building for a starter next year. The time to make the move is NOW. Still have time to salvage the season.

 

[Irishsaint83]

I think the team is in a downward spiral at the moment. There seems to be no easy games any more. Even the Falcons game was an epic struggle. Might be a few 8-9 or 9-8 seasons ahead although if you were to tell me we would finish 9-8 this season I would bite your hand off. Maybe build up draft capital to sign Arch Manning in 2025/2026. The team committed to Jameis so after 3 games you cannot just jettison him. Most people knew what we were getting with Jameis. He was a figure of hilarity and ridicule during his Tampa years on here despite Grade A receiving weapons. He has plenty of that talent around him again but is struggling to get it done. I'm not sure what people expected. Yes he is struggling with injuries but Taysom Hill didn't get the same benefit of the doubt when he was throwing with torn tendons on his finger on his throwing hand. There are some quarters where these injuries dont appear to be an issue for Jameis and he is throwing some beautiful throws. The 4th quarter of Falcons game and end of 3rd/start of 4th yesterday he looked good so I cant understand the inconsistency. He can probably build a rapport and plod along for a while but long term I dont see superbowls in his future.

 

[BarBar]

Very good post. I also think Jameis was way better in Tampa, so that’s squarely on our coaching.

They have made him so scared of turnovers that he won't throw the ball and he is second guessing himself at every turn. Half a second extra to think is an eternity.

Carmichael needs to design an offense for Winston THIS WEEK or the season is done.

 

[No2DC]

They have made him so scared of turnovers that he won't throw the ball and he is second guessing himself at every turn. Half a second extra to think is an eternity.

Carmichael needs to design an offense for Winston THIS WEEK or the season is done.

It's a comedy of errors. Once we get into a semi-rhythm throwing and running we have a fumble. If the offense makes a good play, the D collapses. We had two field goals blocked yesterday.

 

[Gumbo's Dad]

I am with you. Jameis turns out to be a great guy who tries really hard. But this offense is built (or relegated to) a short to medium passing game with a quick release and decisive qb. We do not have an o line that can keep a qb clean and give him enough time for many long balls. We lost our qb guru. It isvtime to try Dalton and see what happens before the season is lost to Haslett style stubbornness.

 

[RJ in Lafayette]

I do not think Winston is our quarterback of the future or, even if fully healthy, is a top 20 quarterback. I think his decision-making is poor, and given his years in the league, it is not going to get better.

I also think that injuries are adversely affecting his game by eliminating the threat of his running when the pocket breaks down and that playing him at this time is a disservice to Winston and the team.

Finally, I question whether Carmichael can design an offense that can take advantage of the talent we do have.

 

[El Caliente]

I had to turn it off early today, but even the passes that were being caught looked off target. He needs to either sit and heal, or sit and get his head right.

Yeah, he was either throwing them too high, or too low, or behind his receiver. Some might say that those were perfectly placed balls were only his guy could catch them, but they looked rough.

 

[ShadowMan]

PUT DALTON IN ...........NOW!!! (there I've said it)

 

[UltraSaints]

Our biggest problem is not being discipline that’s the coach, should’ve let Carmichael go as soon as he showed hesitancy in taking the job

Yeah he never wanted to be OC. Why did we talk him into it? Why give someone who didn’t want it the job when we could of got some young and upcoming potential. Makes no sense. Why did PC not want it in the first place? I get the impression he knew he was out of his depth and didn’t want the added responsibility. It’s quite sad really. Nepotism at its finest.

 

[latechsaint26]

Does Bobby call him this? Sounds like a Bobbyism.

And, no, QB isn't the main problem. But starting a QB who isn't healthy over a backup QB who IS healthy is clearly doing more harm than good if Jameis is to have a future. Really really getting solidly into the starting an injured Brooks over a non-injured Delhomme territory now.

I don’t know but I definitely thought of it in Bobby’s voice lol