Quest for a new head coach, considering we are # 28 on total offense, # 7 on total defense (1 Viewer)

guillermo

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I know this is the perfect moment to evaluate what has and has not been working during yes, the last 16 seasons.

Sean Payton certainly left a successful legacy, that will be hard for anyone to duplicate.

Now, to be honest, we can think back and recognize that during Coach Payton's tenure we ran one of the most creative and successful offenses, but with the exception of our Super Bowl year and the Dennis Allen period, we also had really mediocre and frankly, terrible defences. Our Special Teams became special only during the last five years.

So before starting to rip everything apart, we have to consider that we have the best defensive coaching staff and personnel we had since the Dome Patrol, we also have our best special teams unit, and Pete Carmichael has been during the good and bad of our offensive period.

More than who will be the next head coach, I am interested to keep continuity on special teams and on defense. With 9 coaching staffs that will be hired, I am not confident that we will be able to keep both Kris Richard and Ryan Nielsen. I guess both will get defensive coordinator opportunities with the saints or any other team.

I want also to keep Darren Rizzi and Phil Galiano coordinating our special teams.

On offense, Pete Carmichael has the keys of the system, but I think he needs help. We need first to develop a quarterback, whoever may be (in house or an outsider), Ronald Curry is our quarterbacks coach but his experience has been mostly working with receivers. I wonder if we will need a fully person with more experience coaching quarterbacks and allow Curry to help Carmichael with the planning of the offense. I also wonder. I also wonder if Dan Roushar should go back and work with the offensive line. I will be excited if new people like Doug Peterson or even Joe Brady will come back to the organization, but only to help Pete, not to take his position.

Once we have our coaching staff set, we should recognize that our main assets to rebuild the offense will be coming from the draft. With the coaches we currently have at their ideal positions, I am confident we can turn the page and be really competitive in a couple of years. For that, I mean competitive enough to fight for a championship.

It all will start with the second most important decision of the offseason after naming a head coach, and that will be to marry a quarterback and build around him for years to come. The player may be with us right now, or might come via the draft.

The point is, in order to be competitive soon, I think it is way better to have continuity than to start from zero. I am not against bringing new ideas, but these ideas have to accommodate to our current staff and schemes.
 

meily

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So you want to hire a new Coach but strap him with the old regimes Coaches....and you want to be a successful franchise?

How many times have we seen a new coach come aboard and keep some staff because of previous success only to see them leave one by one after each mediocre season because the coach is trying to save his job only for said coach to be fired by year 3 because of the losing.
 
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guillermo

guillermo

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So you want to hire a new Coach but strap him with the old regimes Coaches....and you want to be a successful franchise?

How many times have we seen a new coach come aboard and keep some staff because of previous success only to see them leave one by one after each mediocre season because the coach is trying to save his job only for said coach to be fired by year 3 because of the losing.
I don't think you understand my post meily. My priority goes on keeping the staff as intact as possible, and also on the offensive side, if our coaches can bring better results by either returning to previous assignements.

I don't think of change for the sake of changing. I don't think if we bring a coach from the outside, this person will be able to build a staff as competitive as we currently have. And if we bring a guy from the outside, I also wonder if our current coaches will prefer to leave now that there will be many option to get another job somewhere.

I really believe we can be competitive in a couple of years.
 

No2DC

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I don't think you understand my post meily. My priority goes on keeping the staff as intact as possible, and also on the offensive side, if our coaches can bring better results by either returning to previous assignements.

I don't think of change for the sake of changing. I don't think if we bring a coach from the outside, this person will be able to build a staff as competitive as we currently have. And if we bring a guy from the outside, I also wonder if our current coaches will prefer to leave now that there will be many option to get another job somewhere.
I understand wanting to keep the defensive staff but what's the argument for the offensive staff without Payton?
 

whodatbe

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So you want to hire a new Coach but strap him with the old regimes Coaches....and you want to be a successful franchise?

How many times have we seen a new coach come aboard and keep some staff because of previous success only to see them leave one by one after each mediocre season because the coach is trying to save his job only for said coach to be fired by year 3 because of the losing.
It has worked before. See Tomlin with LeBeau
 

meily

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I don't think you understand my post meily. My priority goes on keeping the staff as intact as possible, and also on the offensive side, if our coaches can bring better results by either returning to previous assignements.

I don't think of change for the sake of changing. I don't think if we bring a coach from the outside, this person will be able to build a staff as competitive as we currently have. And if we bring a guy from the outside, I also wonder if our current coaches will prefer to leave now that there will be many option to get another job somewhere.

I really believe we can be competitive in a couple of years.
Your Head Coach has retired, its not change for the sake of change, its OVER. Your post (the way it reads) sounds like your trying to hold onto the past because of some sentimental reason, new coach new coaches new players new outlook.
 
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I agree that we have probably one of the best staff of coaches league-wide. It does seem counterproductive to replace everyone and start from total scratch, as is being suggested by some. I agree that the new coach should feel comfortable working with everyone, and that the vision must be adapted, and that may mean bringing a few people on and letting a few go. That seems totally understandable, but going to the extreme and tearing it all down just doesn't seem the way to go.. but what do I know?
 

Saint Pompano

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Your Head Coach has retired, its not change for the sake of change, its OVER. Your post (the way it reads) sounds like your trying to hold onto the past because of some sentimental reason, new coach new coaches new players new outlook.

And that's how teams yo-yo.

You have to recognize that this isn't a normal coaching change. Most coaching changes come from a coach being fired or resigning before being fired. This is a coach who built a dynasty and has now stepped down/retired. The foundation is already built, it doesn't have to be torn down just to tear it down.

I do think the offense needs to be revamped. Whoever takes it over won't be Payton so the vision won't be the exact same. An offense with a few pieces in place already can be rebuilt in one off season through the draft, trades and free agency.
 

No2DC

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And that's how teams yo-yo.

You have to recognize that this isn't a normal coaching change. Most coaching changes come from a coach being fired or resigning before being fired. This is a coach who built a dynasty and has now stepped down/retired. The foundation is already built, it doesn't have to be torn down just to tear it down.

I do think the offense needs to be revamped. Whoever takes it over won't be Payton so the vision won't be the exact same. An offense with a few pieces in place already can be rebuilt in one off season through the draft, trades and free agency.
So you want DA then?
 
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Your Head Coach has retired, its not change for the sake of change, its OVER. Your post (the way it reads) sounds like your trying to hold onto the past because of some sentimental reason, new coach new coaches new players new outlook.
I look at it like a new manager for a company is hired. Often times when that happens, they are walking into a total mess, with underperforming employees. In our case, we have one of the best staffs that I can remember. It would seem counterproductive to me in our case to replace all these guys who have been excelling at their job. That's not to say some replacements can't be made if the vision calls for it, but to me it just makes little sense to tear it all down right off the bat when there's really no need to.
 

St. Widge

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I have personally been back and forth on whether we need to hire an outside guy for HC or if we should go with Dennis Allen and let him tweak the staff however he wants to. Maybe he keeps everyone or maybe he changes the OC and some of the offensive and defensive staff. I think there are good arguments for both approaches.

Anyway, I was back to leaning toward going for an outside guy until I read this article by Underhill. And it's not so much the arguments he makes for DA. We all know them by now. It's that Underhill, who I think knows football and sees these guys work at practice, in training camp, and the interaction between coaches and players, thinks that Dennis Allen is simply the best choice for the job and a guy who shares the same vision as far as team culture is concerned that Payton had. I'm sure there would be some changes with DA. There would have been some changes even if Payton stays, but the fact that Underhill thinks DA is the best guy for the job, does make me wonder if there is any point in brining in someone from the outside that might not be any better?

 
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guillermo

guillermo

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I understand wanting to keep the defensive staff but what's the argument for the offensive staff without Payton?
It took us a good 10 years or so to build a staff as qualified as the current one.

I don't have any sentimental reasons to keep the coaches, it is for practical reasons I want them to stay.

Around the offense, I done,t think the problem is the scheme or the staff, I think it is the personnel and it starts with the quarterback, receiver group and offensive line.

I think we need a rebuild in the unit, but mostly about players. If you can think of an outsider coach who could build a better all-around staff, be my guest.

But right now, 8 teams are building their coaching staffs, I don't think it is necessary to get in this kind of musical-chair competition when we have a very competitive staff in house.
 

Saint Greg

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I understand wanting to keep the defensive staff but what's the argument for the offensive staff without Payton?

What’s the argument for not? Pete Carmichael has run this offense at a high level in the past. You aren’t going to find a coach that’s going to keep this defensive staff but replace the offensive staff. It’s all or nothing. An internal coach will keep the staff. An external coach will bring in his own guys.
 

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What’s the argument for not? Pete Carmichael has run this offense at a high level in the past. You aren’t going to find a coach that’s going to keep this defensive staff but replace the offensive staff. It’s all or nothing. An internal coach will keep the staff. An external coach will bring in his own guys.

I mean, are we certain that if Dennis Allen is hired he won't decide to go another direction at OC? I mean maybe he loves Carmichael and wants him to stay, but it's also possible that he has someone else in mind for the job or wants to run a different style of offense.

Does anyone recall what kind of offense DA had with the Raiders and who his OC was?

And, I think the argument against Carmichael is that he had never done it without Payton around and last year without Brees was not pretty even with Payton around. I think and hope that was due to injuries and lack of players, but maybe there were other issues. Dennis Allen would certainly have a good idea about that.
 

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So you want DA then?

If he's the best candidate for the job.

If I were building an organization and want to transition to a new leader without dropping off, I would hire from within. Bring in new talent in the coordinator levels to develop for future promotions.

DA got his first HC job at 32 y/o and then has learned under CSP since getting fired. So, he's been in other places and then grew/developed in this system.
 

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