Question about any NFL Appeal of Arbitrator's Watson Ruling (1 Viewer)

[RJ in Lafayette]

I am raising the question because I do not know the answer and would like to know.

Most, if not nearly all, in the media have roundly criticized the arbitrator's ruling suspending Watson for only six games. I would not have been shocked (though I would have been disappointed) with an eight- to ten game suspension. But it appears that Watson before the hearing was seeking an agreement with the league for a six- or eight gamesuspension, and the league resisted, wanting at lkeast a full season suspension.

We have constantly heard the NFL has two more days to appear the arbitrator's ruling, with the NFL commissioner hearing the appeal.

Question: If the NFL does appeal the arbitrator's ruling, what is the standard for review on appeal? Normally, in arbitration, the reasons for overturning an arbitrator's ruling are few and involve a serious allegation of arbitrator wrongdoing or error. If an appeal is filed, can there be a de novo review (Roger deciding the matter without regard to what the arbirator found and decided--and if so, why have arbitration in the first place if ultimately the league through Roger can do what it wants)? Is Roger limited to overturning the award only if serious wrongdoing or error by the arbitrator is found as though he were an appeals court reviewing an arbitration award in a real lawsuit? Or can Roger use a standard of review falling between the two extremes noted above?

 

[Krodwhodat]

It’s a win for the NFL. They can say they wanted 12 but a female judge made it 6

 

[RJ in Lafayette]

NFL has filed its appeal. No desicion on whether Roger will hear appeal or whether he will name someone else to hear the appeal.

 

[Saint Jack]

NFL has filed its appeal. No desicion on whether Roger woill hear appeal or whether he will name someone else to hear the appeal.

Roger will hear it and it’ll be a season plus fines.

 

[platinumvinnyv]

NFL has filed its appeal. No desicion on whether Roger woill hear appeal or whether he will name someone else to hear the appeal.

I'm confused to why have a process then undermine the process when it doesn't go NFL's way. They could've just stayed with roger goodell giving out random suspensions. Both sides picked a Arbitrator. The NFL just baffles me on their decision making, its like they make a rule then have 30 loopholes on and off the field, and acts like we cant see what they are doing.

 

[St.Fury]

I'm confused to why have a process then undermine the process when it doesn't go NFL's way. They could've just stayed with roger goodell giving out random suspensions. Both sides picked a Arbitrator. The NFL just baffles me on their decision making, its like they make a rule then have 30 loopholes on and off the field, and acts like we cant see what they are doing.

I’m not confused at all. Despite my bring very upset at the leniency of Watson’s punishment, this is Goodell’s NFL. Roger is gonna Roger. He has a long history of backhanded, slimy business.

 

[DMaestro]

I am raising the question because I do not know the answer and would like to know.

Most, if not nearly all, in the media have roundly criticized the arbitrator's ruling suspending Watson for only six games. I would not have been shocked (though I would have been disappointed) with an eight- to ten game suspension. But it appears that Watson before the hearing was seeking an agreement with the league for a six- or eight gamesuspension, and the league resisted, wanting at lkeast a full season suspension.

We have constantly heard the NFL has two more days to appear the arbitrator's ruling, with the NFL commissioner hearing the appeal.

Question: If the NFL does appeal the arbitrator's ruling, what is the standard for review on appeal? Normally, in arbitration, the reasons for overturning an arbitrator's ruling are few and involve a serious allegation of arbitrator wrongdoing or error. If an appeal is filed, can there be a de novo review (Roger deciding the matter without regard to what the arbirator found and decided--and if so, why have arbitration in the first place if ultimately the league through Roger can do what it wants)? Is Roger limited to overturning the award only if serious wrongdoing or error by the arbitrator is found as though he were an appeals court reviewing an arbitration award in a real lawsuit? Or can Roger use a standard of review falling between the two extremes noted above?

From what I understand, the important thing is that the arbitrator ruled in favor of the NFL in determining that it had successfully proven its case and Watson had indeed violated the league's code of conduct. Neither the league nor the Watson camp could have appealed that conclusion. The punishment itself can be appealed -- to the commissioner himself. The arbitrator recommended a 6-game suspension on the basis of precedent and severity ("non-violent" sexual misconduct) but the league will likely want to establish a clear new precedent and can impose whatever punishment it likes since there won't be any 3rd party involved in the appeal. I've heard they're considering a full season with no fine or 12 games with a fine and mandatory treatment. Either way, it won't be just 6 games.

 

[No2DC]

Meh, Roger gonna Roger. The NFLPA is foolish to let him get the final decision after arbitration.

 

[superchuck500]

Meh, Roger gonna Roger. The NFLPA is foolish to let him get the final decision after arbitration.

It's a matter of collective bargaining. The PA could have had the league give this up but it didn't. I know that Goodell has stated that it is very important to him so it was going to be costly for the PA to get that concession. They chose not to.

As to @RJ in Lafayette question, here's how Florio described the process back in 2020 when it was announced - and this is based, in part, on conversations with the league office about how they interpret it (source at bottom):

Things get interesting once the Disciplinary Officer issues a decision. The Commissioner, or his hand-picked designee, continues to have full authority over the appeal. Based on the language of the policy, the Commissioner has broad powers when it comes to reviewing, revising, or reversing the Disciplinary Officer’s decision: “The decision of the Commissioner or his designee, which may overturn, reduce, modify or increase the discipline previously issued, will be final and binding on all parties.”

There’s an important caveat. While the Commissioner has the power to “overturn, reduce, modify or increase the discipline previously issued,” the Commissioner cannot alter a decision to not discipline the player at all. The league office has indeed confirmed that, if the Disciplinary Officer finds that there should be no discipline at all, the case is over.


So the "standard of review" appears to be limited to the measure of the discipline - and not the factual findings of the disciplinary officer. In this case, Judge Robinson found that (1) Watson set up these sessions with the intent of seeking sexual contact and (2) that the women did not want sexual contact. I suspect the Commissioner will rely on those findings but then conclude that based on those findings, six games is not enough.

Understanding the NFL's new process for imposing discipline under Personal Conduct Policy - ProFootballTalk

The more things change, the more they stay the same.In 2020, the NFL and NFL Players Association agreed to make real changes to the manner in which discipline is imposed under the Personal Conduct Policy. As a potential suspension of Browns quarterback Deshaun Watson continues to loom, it’s...

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

 

[El Caliente]

I’m not confused at all. Despite my bring very upset at the leniency of Watson’s punishment, this is Goodell’s NFL. Roger is gonna Roger. He has a long history of backhanded, slimy business.

He represents the owners. He is their agent. He is as slimy as they are.

 

[saint_drago]

I'm confused to why have a process then undermine the process when it doesn't go NFL's way. They could've just stayed with roger goodell giving out random suspensions. Both sides picked a Arbitrator. The NFL just baffles me on their decision making, its like they make a rule then have 30 loopholes on and off the field, and acts like we cant see what they are doing.

Yeah it doesn't make much sense. Why would the NFLPA agree to having an arbitration process that Goodell can simply overturn? I swear it's like a Jedi mind trick or something. "So you don't want me to have the final say on punishments? Okay well how about this, we bring in a neutral third party to act as an arbitrator and decide the appropriate punishment. Then I'll look at it and decide whether or not they got it right and make changes as needed. Sounds fair right? Alright I'm glad we figured that out, sign here."

The NFL always has the NFLPA chasing its own tail about things that don't matter as much. While the NFLPA is worried about practice time and weed tests Goodell somehow manages to keep the final say on punishments.

I think Watson deserves more than 6 games but if you set up an arbitration process that can be completely dismissed then why have it at all? Why not have another neutral third party hear the appeal?

 

[superchuck500]

Yeah it doesn't make much sense. Why would the NFLPA agree to having an arbitration process that Goodell can simply overturn? I swear it's like a Jedi mind trick or something. "So you don't want me to have the final say on punishments? Okay well how about this, we bring in a neutral third party to act as an arbitrator and decide the appropriate punishment. Then I'll look at it and decide whether or not they got it right and make changes as needed. Sounds fair right? Alright I'm glad we figured that out, sign here."

The NFL always has the NFLPA chasing its own tail about things that don't matter as much. While the NFLPA is worried about practice time and weed tests Goodell somehow manages to keep the final say on punishments.

I think Watson deserves more than 6 games but if you set up an arbitration process that can be completely dismissed then why have it at all? Why not have another neutral third party hear the appeal?

I think it simply boils down to (1) the owners value having the final say on this and (2) if the PA wants to change it, it's going to cost them in collective bargaining perhaps even to the point of work stoppage. The PA has been unwilling to go that far on it.

 

[St.Fury]

He represents the owners. He is their agent. He is as slimy as they are.

This isn’t untrue. But I believe it would be more accurate to say that he primarily represents the intent of a select few “heavy hitter” owners.

 

[Madmarsha]

NFL has filed its appeal. No desicion on whether Roger woill hear appeal or whether he will name someone else to hear the appeal.

I have many rhetorical questions. One is HOW DOES THIS WORK? I appeal something and I get to JUDGE SHOP?

At this point, it's not even about how many weeks it is (but, really, it should be a year) but how messed up this "improvement" to the process is

 

[Madmarsha]

I'm confused to why have a process then undermine the process when it doesn't go NFL's way. They could've just stayed with roger goodell giving out random suspensions. Both sides picked a Arbitrator. The NFL just baffles me on their decision making, its like they make a rule then have 30 loopholes on and off the field, and acts like we cant see what they are doing.

EXACTLY!