Question about corruption... (1 Viewer)

Wombat

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Why does it seem that in the majority of cases when a Republican is accused of unethical, illegal, immoral behavior they resign and their seat then becomes a possible Democrat pickup? Examples being Foley, DeLay, Bob Ney, Duke Cunningham, Bob Livingston and Dan Crane.

But, when a Democrat engages in unethical or criminal behavior they not only refuse to resign but often get re-elected. If they do resign the seat tends to remain in the Democrat column.?
Examples:

Mel Reynolds- sex with 16 year old refused to give up seat then lost to Jesse Jackson, jr.

Alcee Hastings- As a judge he was impeached for taking bribes and commiting perjury. He is curently in line for a chairmanship in the U.S. House.

Dollar Bill Jefferson- We know.

Gary Studds- Censured for sexual relationship with 17 year-old male. Re-elected 6 times after that.

Ted Kennedy- Kills female campaign worker while driving drunk then fails to immediately call for help. He also contacted his lawyer before police. Continues to be re-elected.
 

Brad Mojo

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I'm still kind of ticked off about Bob Livingston. We could have used him as speaker of the house. All he did was have an affair, which is pretty tame by today's corruption standards.
 

TPS

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Perception.

In Jefferson's case, he's going to play it for all it's worth. He'll drop the race card if necessary also.

But there's a difference between corruption and ethics. Bob Livingston wasn't corrupt as far as I can tell (talking legally, not morally). You need to make a distinction that's apparently clouding your mind.

You also should investigate the Reagan years and see how many of them acted and outright lied about important things (acknowledging our last president also lied under oath but not about something technically illegal in itself).

TPS
 
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Why does it seem that in the majority of cases when a Republican is accused of unethical, illegal, immoral behavior they resign and their seat then becomes a possible Democrat pickup? Examples being Foley, DeLay, Bob Ney, Duke Cunningham, Bob Livingston and Dan Crane.

Let's address the specific people one by one:

Cunningham: Resigned office after agreeing to a plea bargain which was going to put him behind bars.

Delay: Took a long and winding road to resignation. He remained in office, while under indictment, for seven months, before finally resigning.

Foley: Apparently sexually harrassed paiges for several years, only resigning after being caught. If he is your example of superior Republican morality, then you must not be a very moral person.

Bob Ney: Resigned office after pleading guilty to federal corruption charges.

Dan Crane: Never resigned from office, but was beaten in the election following the scandal.

Bob Livingston: Not corruption charges, though I guess you could say he did the honorable thing by resigning. I'm not really sure I would call that honor though. He really just got caught being a hypocrite.


It's not as if anyone but Bob Livingston just up and resigned when they were called into question.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong but Mel Reynolds DID resign, and was beaten by Jesse Jackson when he tried to retake his seat.

As for Bill Jefferson, he's not doing anything different than what Delay did, or Cunningham did or Ney did. (Except he may not have to resign because he might not get re-elected.)



I fail to see any great distinction between the actions of members of either party. I also don't think it's anything to brag about that the members of one party resign after being caught in corruption.
 
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Wombat

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I fail to see any great distinction between the actions of members of either party. I also don't think it's anything to brag about that the members of one party resign after being caught in corruption.

There's no bragging. Foley should have resigned. The curious part is why did the seat turn Dem? But it appears that Republican constituencies are turned off by actions deemed immoral, unethical or illegal while Democrats use it as a badge of honor for re-election.

Mel Reynolds was indicted 8/94, re-elected 11/94, convicted 8/22/95 and resigned 10/1/95.

The question was why do they keep getting re-elected and not shunned by Democrats? Hastings was impeached as a judge and has since been re-elected numerous times to the House! Studds was censured, yet re-elected 6 times! Kennedy killed and is still a senator!?!

TPS, the distinction between corruption, ethics and immorality is clear in my mind. That's why I only included a Livingston type situation on the Rebublican side. I would not expect Democrats to get upset over infidelity.

Additionally, I'm only talking about Congress because the Delay and Foley seats in strong Republican territory turned over to the Dems. Seats like those of Jefferson and Sen. Menendez will stay Dem and likely retain the corrupt politician to boot.
 

saintfan-n-alex

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because reps take the "we are moral and you are not " approach so when they screw up they are labled as hypocrites, liars as well as guilty of the activity they were caught doing. - the old do what i say not what i do mentality that most intelligent people dont buy into

where as dems just are guilty of what they did, they never (or usually dont) took a position of "you are imoral if you do this" so when they screw up thay are just like everyone else - human

but in the case of kerry, dean - if you come off saying something stupid, or make a weird scream or dumb joke you are dead politically
 

CT Saints Fan

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because reps take the "we are moral and you are not " approach so when they screw up they are labled as hypocrites, liars as well as guilty of the activity they were caught doing. - the old do what i say not what i do mentality that most intelligent people dont buy into

where as dems just are guilty of what they did, they never (or usually dont) took a position of "you are imoral if you do this" so when they screw up thay are just like everyone else - human

but in the case of kerry, dean - if you come off saying something stupid, or make a weird scream or dumb joke you are dead politically

So because one group has lower standards, that makes them better when they screw up because we expected it from them?
 

TPS

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>>while Democrats use it as a badge of honor for re-election.

In some cases, it may be a racial thing (see Clarence Thomas and the way he handled the Anita Hill inquisition. As the investigation later concluded, there were several other black women waiting in the wings who had received similar treatment. They were all credible.) :shrug:

TPS
 

UncleTrvlingJim

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So because one group has lower standards, that makes them better when they screw up because we expected it from them?

No... it's b/c some people vote Republican b/c they supposedly believe in certain standards usually regarding sex, etc. Typically people don't Democrat for those reasons.
 

gavinj

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Tom DeLay was harder to get rid of than Michael Moore at an all-you-can-eat buffet.
 

saintfan-n-alex

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So because one group has lower standards, that makes them better when they screw up because we expected it from them?

no

but when people who claim to be the ones with greater morality and point their fingers at the actions of others, and then get caught doing the same things they are judging others for it makes it that much worse on them.

thats the dangerous thing about judging others, you have to maintain a near perfect existance or you are not only just as bad as those of same behavior, you are also a hypocrite. people dont seem to like that trait in a person.

thats why the bible states, he who is without sin cast the first stone, do not judge or let thee be judged, judgement is mine.


or if you want to state it in terms groups and standards, those who claim to have higher standards and then knowingly violate those standards, do they have higher standards or no standards at all.
 

CT Saints Fan

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no

but when people who claim to be the ones with greater morality and point their fingers at the actions of others, and then get caught doing the same things they are judging others for it makes it that much worse on them.

thats the dangerous thing about judging others, you have to maintain a near perfect existance or you are not only just as bad as those of same behavior, you are also a hypocrite. people dont seem to like that trait in a person.

thats why the bible states, he who is without sin cast the first stone, do not judge or let thee be judged, judgement is mine.


or if you want to state it in terms groups and standards, those who claim to have higher standards and then knowingly violate those standards, do they have higher standards or no standards at all.


But you are generalizing. If this Rep from Florida preached about not having gay sex with teenage pages, and then got caught, then he deserves everything he gets. That does NOT mean that all Republicans or all conservatives are hypocritical. In fact, those who say don't have gay sex with teenage pages and who are in fact NOT having gay sex with teenage pages are upholding their high standards.

So your problem seems to be with those who have high standards. Because you seem to be saying it's OK to gay sex with teenage pages as long as you don't preach about not having gay sex with teenage pages. Do I have that right?
 

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