Question about pushing forward (1 Viewer)

DaveXA

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So I've been thinking a bit about how we build bridges and advance racial relationships and reconciliation and I need a bit of guidance. We've been talking issues, policing, protesting, culture among other things. But I have a bit more practical question. Who leads the process of reconciliation? What does it look like on a micro/personal level?

The reason I ask is because I don't want to step out of turn, or step on toes and speak for someone who doesn't want me to speak. I'm feeling a little unsure as to what my role is in the reconciliation process.

I do want to be an advocate, but I don’t know how to do it in a way that empowers people of color. I know it's a bit of an open ended question, but I'm puzzling over what the approach is. I want fair, equal treatment, and I'm willing to give what I'm able to level the playing field, but feeling unsure how to accomplish that on a personal level.

Thoughts?
 
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DaveXA

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I'm scarfing down lunch between calls so I probably won't articulate this as well as I should but I'll give it a shot. This may get too political for the mods, if so feel free to delete.

What you said up there is something where my perception has shifted. In my 20s and early 30s I fancied myself a bit of a libertarian (probably little l, not big L) and a "fiscal conservative/social liberal". Over time I've come to the realization that "fiscally conservative socially liberal" can often be an oxymoron and at times it's a bit intellectually immature.

What creates the uneven playing field are the built-in advantages. I went to good schools. I ate good food. I had good healthcare. My parents had access to educational toys and tools as I got older. So did my parents. And their parents, going all the way back.

If we're going to create a level playing field, we have to change that. That means healthcare. That means better education. That means access to a living wage. That means all of the things that a "fiscal conservative" would traditionally be against. But if you're truly "socially liberal", you've got to understand that without access to those things, minorities will never have the same opportunity that my kids will. Politically I'm still sort feeling my way through exact policies (I'm still unsure about universal healthcare, for example). But I do recognize that until those things are accessible to all, there isn't true equality of opportunity.

There are a lot of smart white people who I think truly in their hearts want equality for all. But I think there's a lot of people (myself to some extent) that naively believe that you can be "fiscally conservative and socially liberal". We're going to have to spend money on things if we really want to create equal footholds for all.

Anyway, a bit of an unfinished thought, I'll prob circle back later after others have added more to the discussion.
My idea of fiscal conservatism doesn't necessarily mean an absence of spending. But rather, spending money wisely on meaningful things. I consider social equality to be a meaningful thing to spend money on. It's money well-spent. I'm a firm believer in self-determination, but I'm also a believer in a level playing field. Self-determination in a broader context isn't practically possible without a level playing field. Certainly we don't all make good decisions, and we ultimately are responsible for our own decisions. But as it sits currently, blacks have never been compensated for what was promised them after the Civil War, and that injustice has to be remedied before rull reconciliation can occur. Those empty promises need to be fulfilled.

I'm still reading up on how to do that, but my mind and heart is open.
 

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My idea of fiscal conservatism doesn't necessarily mean an absence of spending. But rather, spending money wisely on meaningful things. I consider social equality to be a meaningful thing to spend money on. It's money well-spent. I'm a firm believer in self-determination, but I'm also a believer in a level playing field. Self-determination in a broader context isn't practically possible without a level playing field. Certainly we don't all make good decisions, and we ultimately are responsible for our own decisions. But as it sits currently, blacks have never been compensated for what was promised them after the Civil War, and that injustice has to be remedied before rull reconciliation can occur. Those empty promises need to be fulfilled.

I'm still reading up on how to do that, but my mind and heart is open.
40 acres and a mule would be about 2.6 trillion today

They probably should have paid it out back then
 
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DaveXA

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40 acres and a mule would be about 2.6 trillion today

They probably should have paid it out back then
Absolutely. I know Congress and a certain segment of our population would just flip out if we did that, but I'd be perfectly OK with 2.6 trillion going to the descendants of those who were supposed to receive that land and mule. I actually think that's a good use of resources.
 

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Not offering solutions here, but trying to define the problems.

The most basic element in pursuing happiness is healthcare. The paradigm of trying healthcare to employment seems ridiculous. And I speak as someone who has "cadillac" health insurance.

Educational opportunities must be improved. I've mentioned this before: when whites and blacks become real colleagues, racial differences become insignificant. This is an unbelievably complex problem, wrapped up in redlining and other blatantly racist practices. There is something fundamentally wrong with the way we fund schools. Advancement is usually fueled by education.

I have no idea how to change the minds of real racists. The fact that the protests were led by young people gives me some hope.

Those are two paradigm shifts I can think of, and there must be many others. People have to be willing to accept input that they are not used to, and that is very difficult for many.
 
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DaveXA

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Not offering solutions here, but trying to define the problems.

The most basic element in pursuing happiness is healthcare. The paradigm of trying healthcare to employment seems ridiculous. And I speak as someone who has "cadillac" health insurance.

Educational opportunities must be improved. I've mentioned this before: when whites and blacks become real colleagues, racial differences become insignificant. This is an unbelievably complex problem, wrapped up in redlining and other blatantly racist practices. There is something fundamentally wrong with the way we fund schools. Advancement is usually fueled by education.

I have no idea how to change the minds of real racists. The fact that the protests were led by young people gives me some hope.

Those are two paradigm shifts I can think of, and there must be many others. People have to be willing to accept input that they are not used to, and that is very difficult for many.
The only way is to start young. A hard-core older racist is impossible to have a rational discussion with. I know because I've tried. And I tried up until he passed away. He took his racist worldview with him to the grave. Unfortunately some will be like that. Frustrating.
 

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I have no idea how to change the minds of real racists. The fact that the protests were led by young people gives me some hope.
Work on the ones who have some hope.

Shame and minimize the opinions of the ones who don't until they're reduced to far-flung and shadowy corners of the world and the internet. There will always be some full-blown racists. The key is to stigmatize them to the point where the children of civilized society don't ever see their nonsense.

Right now we're seeing what happens when the cockroaches are allowed out from the basement, and it ain't pretty. We won't fix 100% of racism, but we can beat what's left of them back into to the upside-down where they belong so that their hate isn't allowed to spread or see the light of day.
 
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DaveXA

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Work on the ones who have some hope.

Shame and minimize the opinions of the ones who don't until they're reduced to far-flung and shadowy corners of the world and the internet. There will always be some full-blown racists. The key is to stigmatize them to the point where the children of civilized society don't ever see their nonsense.

Right now we're seeing what happens when the cockroaches are allowed out from the basement, and it ain't pretty. We won't fix 100% of racism, but we can beat what's left of them back into to the upside-down where they belong so that their hate isn't allowed to spread or see the light of day.
Indeed, I'm a tolerant guy. But even that has it's limits. I don't tolerate racists. They can stay in their corner for all I care. I'd rather they change, but for some, rather unlikely.
 

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For anyone who either doesn't want to buy the book "The Color of Law", or don't have time to read it, here is the author speaking on it.

You can jump to the 7:10 mark when he starts to break it down and also it's impacts felt today. You simply cannot hear this and then say no to reparations. It should make anyone angry to even know this happened not very long ago and nothing has ever really been done about it. You should at the very least look at heavily redlined places like Chicago differently.

This is the reconciliation that needs to happen more than anything. This is the way to move forward.

 
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texasjefe

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We're going to have to spend money on things if we really want to create equal footholds for all.
That's exactly right. And the resistance to doing that is the real racist 'monument' that has to be torn down.

Since 1980, when Republicans have been in charge, "fiscal conservatives" jacked up defense spending, did the Iraq War (an unintentional gift to Iran) that wasted tons of military and innocent lives and billions of dollars, made it so the wealthy and corporations did not pay taxes, exploded the deficit and debt, raised the cost of living, and exploded poverty by cutting welfare and freezing the paltry minimum wage while the cost of living has gone up. Today, they rip up what's left of the safety net. And in 1990 when Limbaugh got started and 1996 when Fox News came on, the wealthy used those huge platforms to demonize liberals, gerrymander, and build an electoral firewall - totally anti-Democracy. (The left stupidly, has never countered Fox News anywhere close to scale)

When Democrats have been in charge, they have played the victim role, appeasing the wealthy and Wall Street, and abdicating doing big change under the phony cover of serving "austerity." They have played some defense on domestic issues, raised taxes a bit, and made some incremental social changes. They have done war in the background, with drones and continuing to fund dictators in regime change. The Democrats did not have the political will to add a public option in healthcare in Obama's first term, even though he campaigned on it. Now it's 10 years later already.

As I said earlier, we can only directly influence people around us. We can vote, and hope that our vote is not changed by someone on an ipad a quarter-mile away. We can donate to causes we support, where organizations and candidates are better positioned to make change.

But macro-level change in defeating racism and discrimination -- and the intentional and grose income inequality --- should only happen in policy-making structures, that frankly are wholly owned and controlled by the wealthy, and now, foreign dictators.

We are not citizens, we are pawns, who are manipulated to be divided and vote out of hate, not out of supporting consensus-based common-sense public policy.

Fortunately, we're at a tipping point. We're either going to get new leadership from the left that has the political will to tear down the criminal grift and wealth-making, power-consolidating racket and the race/gender/ethnic/income -discrimation it crystallizes - or we're going to get the same old weak-left or extremist right leadership - and continue spiraling into fascism and mass-scale herd-thinning.

Have a nice day. Hug/elbow-bump your loved ones and don't take them for granted. We all should stop wasting our life posting on a football message board. hah ha ha. But alas, the online community center is good, especially when physical access to others has been taken away, or can be dangerous.


(If the mods want to delete this post, I take zero offense if you do that.)
 
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