Question for Catholics (Catholic Church Crisis) (1 Viewer)

I think it's an expectation thing. Priests should be held to a higher standard than the rest of the population. There are Biblical references to this and when the statistics don't show an appreciable difference in the statistics, one has to wonder why that is.

That said, it's a complex subject and I think it's more of a human nature thing than anything else. It's incredibly damaging to the victims and their families as well as the church. I think the church has to do more, but changing the culture of such a large and global institution is like trying to steer the USS Roosevelt with a paddle. I do think the Pope is trying to lead on this in good faith, but easier said than done.

You and I have higher expectations, but that's not the popular complaint. The popular notion is that a life choice of chastity and celibacy necessarily leads to taking out sexual frustration on children.

I wish I could agree with you about the pope, but I do not.

Yeah, Pedophiles are hard to spot before they act and get caught. It happens in all organizations where adult men are around children. For example schools, Boy Scouts, playground sports, etc. And, certainly, the Catholic Church would seem like a good place to be for pedophiles. So, I don't really blame the Church for having pedophiles in their ranks.

What I do blame them for is covering it up and moving pedophiles around to avoid bad press and lawsuits. Just no excuse for betraying the children and parents of the Church like that.

Edit: But I would be interested in knowing if the Catholic Priesthood has a higher percentage of pedophiles per capita that the general population or other organizations. I don't know the answer and I'm not sure how you could do a valid and accurate study but anecdotally, it seems to me that pdeophiles would have seen the Church as a safe haven since for years there were no reports of abuses because of cover ups.

The studies and data we have suggest the percentage is equal to that of other populations. I do think you get pockets of density, however, that are born of specific cultures surrounding particular local bishops and poor priestly formation. So some seminaries, for example, may foster the ordination of more men who are capable of such crimes versus others who are much better at weeding them out or not attracting them in the first place. But spread across the spectrum, the percentages look to even out to the average if I recall correctly.

Also, I completely agree with you regarding the cover ups. It's a complicated thing to work through with all sorts of historic gray areas, but there's certainly a theme of financial, sexual, and psychological abuse on an institutional level that is unforgivable.
 
You realize that the majority of sexual abuse of minors is executed by persons who have not taken vows of celibacy. There are many, many people who are celibate for one reason or another who do not "take it out" on children. This is not the droid you're looking for. Lack of sex does not make one a child abuser.
And being married doesn't always avoid a lack of sex. Haha.
 
You and I have higher expectations, but that's not the popular complaint. The popular notion is that a life choice of chastity and celibacy necessarily leads to taking out sexual frustration on children.

I wish I could agree with you about the pope, but I do not.



The studies and data we have suggest the percentage is equal to that of other populations. I do think you get pockets of density, however, that are born of specific cultures surrounding particular local bishops and poor priestly formation. So some seminaries, for example, may foster the ordination of more men who are capable of such crimes versus others who are much better at weeding them out or not attracting them in the first place. But spread across the spectrum, the percentages look to even out to the average if I recall correctly.

Also, I completely agree with you regarding the cover ups. It's a complicated thing to work through with all sorts of historic gray areas, but there's certainly a theme of financial, sexual, and psychological abuse on an institutional level that is unforgivable.

Yeah, I agree on the general chastity and celibacy perception, which is clearly not accurate. I think most priests who abuse were predisposed to commit these type of crimes long before becoming priests. In fact, I'm sure some become priests or ministers precisely because the think doing that will somehow help them stop feeling/behaving that way. And it doesn't work. That shouldn't ever be the reasons for entering ministry.

And yeah, I suspected you have your reservations about the current Pope. Understandable.
 
Yeah, Pedophiles are hard to spot before they act and get caught. It happens in all organizations where adult men are around children. For example schools, Boy Scouts, playground sports, etc. And, certainly, the Catholic Church would seem like a good place to be for pedophiles. So, I don't really blame the Church for having pedophiles in their ranks.

What I do blame them for is covering it up and moving pedophiles around to avoid bad press and lawsuits. Just no excuse for betraying the children and parents of the Church like that.

Edit: But I would be interested in knowing if the Catholic Priesthood has a higher percentage of pedophiles per capita that the general population or other organizations. I don't know the answer and I'm not sure how you could do a valid and accurate study but anecdotally, it seems to me that pdeophiles would have seen the Church as a safe haven since for years there were no reports of abuses because of cover ups.

I agree with you wholeheartedly about the damage the Church has done in the way they handled the discovery of these issues. I also agree with you about Pope Francis. The less we make 'rock stars' of priests, the less we give in to clericalism, the better.
 
depends on how (and why) you're framing "atrocious"
what Israel is doing to Palestine (religion masquerading as politics masquerading as religion) is hella atrocious
a govt that was put in place by a minority of single-issue religious voters that perpetuates cycles of poverty, denies healthcare, applies legislative control over a gender, pushed imperial intercession that perpetuates cycles of violence across the globe (including muslim regions), etc etc - that's all fairly atrocious - and probably has a 10 fold larger body could that muslim extremism


yes a catholic priest is 100% more likely to be a catholic priest than someone who is not a catholic priest (or am i mis-reading your argument?)

Hey so what Israelis are in france cutting people’s heads off? Please.

This sort of off-topic anti-israel drivel wouldnt be super notable on its own, but considering I’ve already had to point out obvious anti-semitism in a post of yours before, at this point it seems clear your true colors are showing.
 
But is it the way priests are taught that is making them behave like this? For instance the priest can not get married and have a family. You don’t find that troublesome? So the priest takes it out in a very sick way hoping not to get caught.

A priest who wants to get married, is going to leave the priesthood and get married. I've seen this happen a handful of times. Or more likely, not become a priest in the first place. Not rape kids.
 
Hey so what Israelis are in france cutting people’s heads off? Please.

This sort of off-topic anti-israel drivel wouldnt be super notable on its own, but considering I’ve already had to point out obvious anti-semitism in a post of yours before, at this point it seems clear your true colors are showing.
It's not anti Semitism to point out that the Israeli's tend to fire rockets into Palestine somewhat indiscriminately. It may be somewhat off topic, however.
 
Hey so what Israelis are in france cutting people’s heads off? Please.

This sort of off-topic anti-israel drivel wouldnt be super notable on its own, but considering I’ve already had to point out obvious anti-semitism in a post of yours before, at this point it seems clear your true colors are showing.
You’ve done nothing of the sort
I completely rebuke charges of antisemitism and ask that your back up your accusation or apologize

and if you are weighing one French teachers life as more valued than 1000s of Palestinians ...

holding Israel to account is not the same as being antisemetic - no way shape or form
 
Based on my almost 20 years at this site, I fully expected to jump into this thread late to see the moderated wreckage fairly well off target.

You guys delivered. :hihi:
 
My respect for her would have gone up u notch if that were even possible. :hihi:
It was there I swear . She was there. I Googled it and there it was and now it is gone I can’t find it. Does anyone know why this is? It was that guy you know that guy that writes for that site had it.:D:ROFLMAO:

SR going to be out of padlocks by the end of 2020.
 

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