Questions over Dolphins handling of Tua’s head injuries (update: Tua concussed again)(Merged) (1 Viewer)

[SaintKenKen]

Surprised this wasn’t brought up before now, and there will probably hard line opinions on both sides. Personally, I didn’t find the tackle to be malicious or excessive. It was not a lift and slam down effort. Tua was spun around and when his feet got taken out beneath him his body whipped to the ground.

Yeah, the results looked bad, though.

To your point though about it being on a QB, a flag wouldn’t have surprised me.

Agreed. I didn't see the game but got an alert on my phone saying "Tua carted off the field after being slammed to the turf in a vicious sack" (or something to that effect). When I finally saw the play this morning, it wasn't nearly as bad as I expected. I'm glad no flag was thrown because I didn't see anything malicious about it.

Still feel bad for Tua though...Hard to watch someone's fingers lock up like that...Honestly, he hit his head and had those effects. I hate to say it but it could have been worse. What if he had taken a helmet to helmet hit instead? *cringe*

Prayers for a speedy and complete recovery for Tua

 

[saintsfan78]

Scary scenes from the Dolphins game tonight. There were already questions about the Dolphins’ handling of what looked like a Tua concussion on Sunday.

Hopefully Tua is okay - he was taken to the hospital for further evaluation, but released tonight. Those questions are now hugely important after tonight’s injury (update: Coach McDaniels confirmed tonight it was indeed a concussion).

This article on NFL.con yesterday (Wednesday):

NFL says every indication is concussion protocol was followed with Dolphins QB Tua Tagovailoa

The NFL confirmed on Wednesday that a review is ongoing into whether the Dolphins followed the league's concussion protocol Sunday when examining a possible head injury for Tua Tagovailoa and said that every indication is that the protocol was followed.

www.nfl.com

This tweet was from 4:08PM today, hours before the game:





Yes Dr. Nowinski is a strong advocate for far
more robust protocols but that doesn’t mean he isn’t right.

The Winston injury status is so much like Tua situation. We have a coach who is afraid to confront a star QB who is obviously injured and limited in his performance due to injury. Sometimes the coach has to play the adult in the room.

 

[efil4stnias]

So why was his fingers like that? His body just froze all kinda weirdly or something? I thought he landed really badly on his hand but he didn't.

its called "fencing" reaction or "posturing" - when the part of the brain that controls motor function goes glitchy after blunt force trauma to the brain.

Its like the brain "seizes" and the nervous system reacts.

Its different from wobbly, woozy legs ( 4 days ago ) in that its much more serious- but the underlying cause is the same- blunt force trauma.

 

[B4YOU]

From article:

But if it involved an elite player, the decision could make or break a team’s chances in the game. The final call, if there is a difference of opinion, falls to the team doctor, who is very likely an orthopedist or sports medicine specialist and not a neurologist.

Concussions, by the New Book (Published 2014)

A hit to the head of an N.F.L. player, once cause for little more than a shrug, now sets in motion a long management protocol, outlined in an inches-thick document.

www.nytimes.com

Good article on the NFL concussion protocol from several years ago. If the investigation determines there was a difference of opinion on Tua’s Sunday injury, then the immediate change is to give the NFL-paid neurologist final say instead of the team doctor.

 

[efil4stnias]

One thing i caught on post game from the ex-players...when discussing the UNC- he is simply on sidelines. They explained that the UNC gets debriefed by team physician as to the symptoms and answers to the questions ( protocol ) - so if the team physician tells the UNC that its his "back" not head and he has cleared protocol, then it should be fairly quick for the NFL/NFLPA to discern. Just interview the UNC from last Sunday.

Because i cant imagine a single independent neurologist examining Tua within 10 min of last Sunday and clearing him to return to the game.

 

[msusaintsfan]

its called "fencing" reaction or "posturing" - when the part of the brain that controls motor function goes glitchy after blunt force trauma to the brain.

Its like the brain "seizes" and the nervous system reacts.

Its different from wobbly, woozy legs ( 4 days ago ) in that its much more serious- but the underlying cause is the same- blunt force trauma.

This.

Go watch some boxing or MMA knockouts. Arms, legs, etc can sometimes seize up like that.

A player whos brains have just been scrambled can't be in their right mind to say I'm fine and go back in. Sunday we saw Dolphins go old school football and clear him to finish. Last night it came back to bite them.

He should not have been playing. Ill be surprised if he plays again this season.

 

[limeyjohn]

Man, McDaniel has pretty much gone from hero to zero in one play, am feeling he will be the one the brunt of the blame will fall upon
This story is going way beyond the NFL, even news programs with nothing to do with sports are carrying it

 

[efil4stnias]

From article:

Concussions, by the New Book (Published 2014)

A hit to the head of an N.F.L. player, once cause for little more than a shrug, now sets in motion a long management protocol, outlined in an inches-thick document.

www.nytimes.com

Good article on the NFL concussion protocol from several years ago. If the investigation determines there was a difference of opinion on Tua’s Sunday injury, then the immediate change is to give the NFL-paid neurologist final say instead of the team doctor.

and there is the confirmation of what the players were saying post-game.

UNC doesnt have final say- team doctor does.

Miami should be eviscerated. Coaches, Front office and medical staff. All of them.

 

[limeyjohn]

and there is the confirmation of what the players were saying post-game.

UNC doesnt have final say- team doctor does.

Miami should be eviscerated. Coaches, Front office and medical staff. All of them.

And not just the Dolphins, the NFL in general should be held accountable

 

[sammymvpknight]

I understand there are those of you who don’t like what I have to say…and if you are apart of that group…simply disregard. But for those that do, here is my take.

Let me start by saying that the focus of concussion prevention by the lay public is misplaced. Sure…there are concerns about post-concussive symptoms and CTE. But that isn’t the biggest concern. The biggest concern is something referred to second impact syndrome, which means a second head injury before the first one heals, which can result in SIGNIFICANT BRAIN INJURY OR DEATH. That’s why Tua’s case is so concerning.

Concussion testing was never intended to be the definitive determinant on whether or not a player has a concussion. It was created as a tool to assist on cases that you are not certain about.

Example 1. Player takes a hard hit and temporarily sees stars or loses their breath but on brief exam the player is acting themself without any neurological concerns. This is a great case to use sideline concussion screenings. Concussion screening puts the player through a timed neurological assessment compared to baseline testing. For these borderline cases…it is great for RULING IN concussion. But you really shouldn’t be doing the test to RULE OUT concussion.

Example 2 (Tua part 1). Player takes a hard hit, holds his head, his legs buckle and teammates have to support him while he walks off the field with clear neurological impairment. Clinically what is happening? Can a back injury cause someone to hold their head, be wobbly, and be almost catatonic. The simple answer is no. The differential diagnosis would be concussion versus transient quadriparesis. And in either case, the player is not returning to the field. The value in a neuro exam/concussion screening would be to differentiate a concussion or cervical spinal cord injury, but even that gets tricky because both conditions can occur simultaneously. But the concussion testing shouldn’t be utilized to determine return to play for that game. ENORMOUS second impact syndrome risk, or risk of significant spinal cord injury (your exam will only help you so much).

So what went wrong? Before I cast blame on the medical staff, l think it’s important to understand what happens with sports coverage. You aren’t just hanging out, drinking a beer, and watching the game on the sidelines. You are tending to injured players. There is a chance that the injury, and therefore the mechanism, was missed. I know that seems impossible…but it is possible. But honestly, that’s the only conceivable thing that makes sense to me. Otherwise, anyone who saw the injury should have known better. Another possibility is that the medical staff didn’t understand how to use the concussion screenings. I suspect that they did the concussion screening and Tua passed…but that doesn’t override clinical judgement. The test should have never been done to rule out concussion in my opinion. And this is something that needs to be widely reviewed throughout the NFL.

Example 3 (Tua part 2). Player takes a hard hit and loses consciousness, and then goes into a fencing posture. This would NOT be the appropriate time for sideline testing. Because there is nothing you can see on that sideline test that should dissuade you from thinking that it’s a concussion. You run the risk of having a false negative, which would be catastrophic.

I hope that the NFL forces the Dolphins into treating this as Tuas second concussion in a week. The reason is because the return to play guidelines change. If they treat this as Tuas first concussion there is a chance that Tua will have an opportunity to get his third concussion in three weeks. Insanity.

 

[superchuck500]

its called "fencing" reaction or "posturing" - when the part of the brain that controls motor function goes glitchy after blunt force trauma to the brain.

Its like the brain "seizes" and the nervous system reacts.

Its different from wobbly, woozy legs ( 4 days ago ) in that its much more serious- but the underlying cause is the same- blunt force trauma.

There’s a clip from a concussed Falcons QB a few years back doing the exact same thing with the fingers. Saw it last night but can’t find it now.

 

[Kegger]

Painful to watch. I was shocked when they let him back in the game last week after a CLEAR concussion. Whoever had the power to stop him but let him play should be fired immediately.

 

[Summed7]

Independent Dr who cleared Tua

 

[SoggyBottomBoy]

Independent Dr who cleared Tua

Hi, I’m James Woods. I’m not really a doctor but I play one in movies.

 

[UFCSaint]

And not just the Dolphins, the NFL in general should be held accountable

Because if they didn't know... They should have...