Quick Question about the end of the game. (1 Viewer)

Houmaboy

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I have been arguing with a friend about the last pass to Ginn. He thinks if Houstons player doesnt touch him those 2 seconds run off the clock and game over.(obviously they still tackle him)

I don't know the rules, however I just think you would have seen this strategy before. He says only the QB can take a knee to stop the clock.
 

blotch1

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Team can't call a TO until the play is dead, but...

Any player with the ball can "give themselves up" by going to the ground and not attempting to advance the ball. That makes the play dead, then the team can call a TO.
 

DallasRene

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Per last night's WWL radio show with Bobby and Deke, the clock stops on that play because Ginn gave himself up AND the Saints have a timeout. The clock does not stop on that play if the Saints do not have a timeout in that situation.
 

LiterOCola

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I have been arguing with a friend about the last pass to Ginn. He thinks if Houstons player doesnt touch him those 2 seconds run off the clock and game over.(obviously they still tackle him)

I don't know the rules, however I just think you would have seen this strategy before. He says only the QB can take a knee to stop the clock.
Every player, not just the QB, can give themselves up. NFL rules, Rule 7, Section 2, Article 1, (d):


when a runner declares himself down by:
  1. falling to the ground, or kneeling, and clearly making no immediate effort to advance.
  2. sliding. When a runner slides, the ball is dead the instant he touches the ground with anything other than his hands or his feet.
There is no provision that says it only applies to QBs, although in most situations they are the only players that invoke the rule regularly. You also see it late in games during turnovers where it's more important for the defense to keep the ball than risk losing the ball back to the offense advancing it further.
 

ThibodauxSaint

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I was actually surprised that the refs actually knew the rules in that situation considering their total lack of knowledge of their own rule book on other occasions including in this game. I knew that a player can give themselves up but I wasn't confident that the officials would know that. It was another opportunity for them to cost us the game but luckily they didn't.
 

superchuck500

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Per last night's WWL radio show with Bobby and Deke, the clock stops on that play because Ginn gave himself up AND the Saints have a timeout. The clock does not stop on that play if the Saints do not have a timeout in that situation.
Yes - and this is actually pretty simple when you think about how the rules work.

The runner declaring himself down, by rule, presents a dead ball (Rule 7). But a dead ball in the field of play does not stop the clock - it only ends the play. A timeout cannot be used during a live play, however, the play must end first before a team can call timeout.

So Ginn declaring himself down doesn't, by itself, stop the clock - but it does end the play, which allows the Saints to use their timeout.
 

boutrous

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I have been arguing with a friend about the last pass to Ginn. He thinks if Houstons player doesnt touch him those 2 seconds run off the clock and game over.(obviously they still tackle him)

I don't know the rules, however I just think you would have seen this strategy before. He says only the QB can take a knee to stop the clock.
Your friend is wrong on both accounts.

A) Anyone can give themselves up to end a play without a tackle

B) The clock doesn't stop when anyone does it, especially a QB.... that's how they run out the clock at the end of the game. The clock only stopped for us because Ginn both gave himself up and called a TO at the same time.
 

HouseCall

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The argument comes from the fact that -- had the Houston player not touched Ginn down immediately, we would have been relying on the officials (who already showed a tremendous lack of situational awareness) to know the rule and blow the play dead once Ginn gave himself up.

Had Ginn not been touched and the official not blown the play dead, the Saints could have argued that he gave himself up and I assume a booth review could have taken place to establish if he had or had not done so prior to time expiring -- but my God...could you imagine that going well?

The rule is pretty clear that if a player is not attempting to advance the ball forward, he is down regardless if he's touched or not. The Saints put a lot of faith in the refs had the Texans not touched Ginn down. But they really had the rules on their side -- though that doesn't always make a difference.
 

Super44

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The argument comes from the fact that -- had the Houston player not touched Ginn down immediately, we would have been relying on the officials (who already showed a tremendous lack of situational awareness) to know the rule and blow the play dead once Ginn gave himself up.

Had Ginn not been touched and the official not blown the play dead, the Saints could have argued that he gave himself up and I assume a booth review could have taken place to establish if he had or had not done so prior to time expiring -- but my God...could you imagine that going well?

The rule is pretty clear that if a player is not attempting to advance the ball forward, he is down regardless if he's touched or not. The Saints put a lot of faith in the refs had the Texans not touched Ginn down. But they really had the rules on their side -- though that doesn't always make a difference.
The Saints advised the officials before the play, if they completed the pass, they were not gong to advance the ball and would be immediately going to the ground, calling a T.O.

This came directly from from Bobby on WWL last night. You should always advise the officials of your intent, prior to the play, in order for them to react more quickly to stopping the clock and being prepared for the T.O. to be called. The Saints told the officials of the their intent and what they were going to do. Brees along with Ginn, executed it beautifully to the script. If had not been for the pre-communication to the officials, I think we would have been hosed. And not being touched, does not have anything to do with the officials granting a T.O., because the play wasn't over. The rule has been in existence for 30 years!
 

bobad

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I'm sure the officials were alerted to the coming TO, so they were watching for the give up by Ginn. They could have been horse's rear ends and hesitated a second or 2, and ran the clock out, but they cooperated.
 

boutrous

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I'm sure the officials were alerted to the coming TO, so they were watching for the give up by Ginn. They could have been horse's rear ends and hesitated a second or 2, and ran the clock out, but they cooperated.
They sort of owed us for forking up the clock at the end of the first half.
 

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