Re-examining the Johnathan Sullivan pick (1 Viewer)

[HORN24/7]

that was a hugh embarrassment of a pick. we were all fooled a little.

 

[Danchrism]

Good analysis and general agreement. Let me ask a "what if" question, just for the sake of discussion.

What if Sullivan had turned out to be a "Hollis Thomas"? What would you think of the pick then?

If he were still here, contributing... getting 5-7 sacks a season, and being a dominant presence for our run defense... then it's not a bad selection at all. Not a sexy pick by any stretch, but filling an important need.

 

[Wisco Steve]

Wonder who we would have landed if we were to stay put and make those two 1st picks?

 

[Urban Legend]

Wonder who we would have landed if we were to stay put and make those two 1st picks?

Haslett said later that he was high on Boss Bailey, thought he was going to go in the top 12 (to the Rams), and even tried trading back up into the 1st round to draft him but the Bills declined because they wanted Mcgahee.

He also said he would have taken the next highest rated DT.

This means that the 2 picks would have been Boss Bailey and Wililam Joseph.

 

[Bestdayz]

I think Brees is a lifetime saint...as long as payton is here at least. he has a bond with this city already that is gonna be tough to break. he and payton seem to get along very nicely too. that said, it is a good idea to groom a young qb from a late round draft pick as a backup..but its a bit premature to start planning for life after brees considering hte guy is 0nly 28 which is the start of the prime of a qb's career..
some young gamechangeers on defense would be nice and some beef on teh D line and Oline for depth is always good to add...

 

[Corporate Johnny]

This is a subject I'd rather not re-examine.

 

[hardhead233]

This is a subject I'd rather not re-examine.

This is what I thought at first but then I said what else do we have to talk about...:dunno:

 

[Loose Cannon]

Great post RockyMtnSaint. You should post more. This board needs more content like that.,

 

[CargoJon]

I agree ... but I also disagree...... I am a 100% for pickin BPA but in the situation we were in that year we all thought we were a player or 2 away from being very good contenders... I did not know all that much about sullivan but I knew we needed a DT ... the pick made SOME sense at the time but I think the trade up made everyone sick...whatever you do .. dont go back to that draft to see who we 'coulda' picked at 17 & 18..... that will really make you sick!!

Dallas Clark
Larry Johnson
Charles Tillman
Rashean Matthias

Hey, and don't forget REX GROSSMAN :_rofl: :_rofl: :_rofl:

Wait, there's more.
Anquan Boldin
Osi Unimyoira
LJ Smith

Sorry I just had to look....

 

[hammernnails]

Dallas Clark
Larry Johnson
Charles Tillman
Rashean Matthias

Hey, and don't forget REX GROSSMAN :_rofl: :_rofl: :_rofl:

Wait, there's more.
Anquan Boldin
Osi Unimyoira
LJ Smith

Sorry I just had to look....

It gets worse..... Troy Polmalu.... and ... well just see for yourself....
Round 1
Sel# Team Player piece of work. School
1 Cincinnati Carson Palmer QB Southern California
2 Detroit Charles Rogers WR Michigan State
3 Houston Andre Johnson WR Miami
4 N.Y. Jets Dewayne Robertson DT Kentucky
5 Dallas Terence Newman CB Kansas State
6 New Orleans Johnathan Sullivan DT Georgia
7 Jacksonville Byron Leftwich QB Marshall
8 Carolina Jordan Gross T Utah
9 Minnesota Kevin Williams DT Oklahoma State
10 Baltimore Terrell Suggs DE Arizona State
11 Seattle Marcus Trufant CB Washington State
12 St. Louis Jimmy Kennedy DT Penn State
13 New England Ty Warren DE Texas A&M
14 Chicago Michael Haynes DE Penn State
15 Philadelphia Jerome McDougle DE Miami
16 Pittsburgh Troy Polamalu SS Southern California
17 Arizona Bryant Johnson WR Penn State
18 Arizona Calvin Pace DE Wake Forest
19 Baltimore Kyle Boller QB California
20 Denver George Foster T Georgia
21 Cleveland Jeff Faine C Notre Dame
22 Chicago Rex Grossman QB Florida
23 Buffalo Willis McGahee RB Miami
24 Indianapolis Dallas Clark TE Iowa
25 N.Y. Giants William Joseph DT Miami
26 San Francisco Kwame Harris T Stanford
27 Kansas City Larry Johnson RB Penn State
28 Tennessee Andre Woolfolk CB Oklahoma
29 Green Bay Nick Barnett MLB Oregon State
30 San Diego Sammy Davis CB Texas A&M
31 Oakland Nnamdi Asomugha CB California
32 Oakland Tyler Brayton OLB Colorado

Round 2
Sel# Team Player piece of work. School
33 Cincinnati Eric Steinbach G Iowa
34 Detroit Boss Bailey OLB Georgia
35 Chicago Charles Tillman CB Louisiana-Lafayette
36 New England Eugene Wilson FS Illinois
37 New Orleans Jon Stinchcomb T Georgia
38 Dallas Al Johnson C Wisconsin
39 Jacksonville Rashean Mathis CB Bethune-Cookman
40 Minnesota E.J. Henderson OLB Maryland
41 Houston Bennie Joppru TE Michigan
42 Seattle Ken Hamlin FS Arkansas
43 St. Louis Pisa Tinoisamoa OLB Hawaii
44 Washington Taylor Jacobs WR Florida
45 New England Bethel Johnson WR Texas A&M
46 San Diego Drayton Florence CB Tuskegee
47 Kansas City Kawika Mitchell MLB South Florida
48 Buffalo Chris Kelsay DE Nebraska
49 Miami Eddie Moore OLB Tennessee
50 Carolina Bruce Nelson C Iowa
51 Denver Terry Pierce OLB Kansas State
52 Cleveland Chaun Thompson OLB West Texas A&M
53 N.Y. Jets Victor Hobson OLB Michigan
54 Arizona Anquan Boldin WR Florida State
55 Atlanta Bryan Scott FS Penn State
56 N.Y. Giants Osi Umenyiora DE Troy
57 San Francisco Anthony Adams NT Penn State
58 Indianapolis Mike Doss SS Ohio State
59 Pittsburgh Alonzo Jackson OLB Florida State
60 Tennessee Tyrone Calico WR Middle Tennessee
61 Philadelphia L.J. Smith TE Rutgers
62 San Diego Terrence Kiel SS Texas A&M
63 Oakland Teyo Johnson TE Stanford
64 Tampa Bay Dewayne White DE Louisville

Round 3
Sel# Team Player piece of work. School
65 Cincinnati Kelley Washington WR Tennessee
66 Detroit Cory Redding DE Texas
67 Houston Antwan Peek OLB Cincinnati
68 Chicago Lance Briggs OLB Arizona
69 Dallas Jason Witten TE Tennessee
70 Arizona Gerald Hayes MLB Pittsburgh
71 Minnesota Nate Burleson WR Nevada
72 Jacksonville Vincent Manuwai G Hawaii
73 Seattle Wayne Hunter T Hawaii
74 St. Louis Kevin Curtis WR Utah State
75 Houston Seth Wand T N.W. Missouri
76 Carolina Mike Seidman TE UCLA
77 Baltimore Musa Smith RB Georgia
78 Miami Wade Smith T Memphis
79 Green Bay Kenny Peterson DE Ohio State
80 San Diego Courtney VanBuren T Arkansas-Pine Bluff
81 Washington Derrick Dockery G Texas
82 Carolina Ricky Manning CB UCLA
83 Oakland Sam Williams DE Fresno State
84 Cleveland Chris Crocker SS Marshall
85 N.Y. Jets B.J. Askew FB Michigan
86 New Orleans Cie Grant MLB Ohio State
87 Miami Taylor Whitley G Texas A&M
88 Houston Dave Ragone QB Louisville
89 San Francisco Andrew Williams DE Miami
90 Indianapolis Donald Strickland CB Colorado
91 N.Y. Giants Visanthe Shiancoe TE Morgan State
92 Kansas City Julian Battle CB Tennessee
93 Tennessee Chris Brown RB Colorado
94 Buffalo Angelo Crowell MLB Virginia
95 Philadelphia Billy McMullen WR Virginia
96 Oakland Justin Fargas RB Southern California
97 Tampa Bay Chris Simms QB Texas

Round 4
Sel# Team Player piece of work. School
98 Cincinnati Dennis Weathersby CB Oregon State
99 Detroit Artose Pinner RB Kentucky
100 Chicago Todd Johnson FS Florida
101 Houston Domanick Davis RB Louisiana State
102 New Orleans Montrae Holland G Florida State
103 Dallas Bradie James ILB Louisiana State
104 Jacksonville George Wrighster TE Oregon
105 Minnesota Onterrio Smith RB Oregon
106 St. Louis Shaun McDonald WR Arizona State
107 St. Louis Dejuan Groce CB Nebraska
108 Denver Quentin Griffin RB Oklahoma
109 Baltimore Jarret Johnson DE Alabama
110 Seattle Seneca Wallace QB Iowa State
111 Buffalo Terrence McGee CB Northwestern State, La.
112 San Diego Matt Wilhelm ILB Ohio State
113 Kansas City Brett Williams T Florida State
114 Denver Nick Eason DE Clemson
115 Cleveland Lee Suggs RB Virginia Tech
116 Chicago Ian Scott NT Florida
117 New England Dan Klecko DT Temple
118 Cincinnati Jeremi Johnson FB Western Kentucky
119 Carolina Colin Branch S Stanford
120 New England Asante Samuel CB Central Florida
121 Atlanta Justin Griffith FB Mississippi State
122 Indianapolis Steve Sciullo G Marshall
123 N.Y. Giants Roderick Babers DB Texas
124 San Francisco Brandon Lloyd WR Illinois
125 Pittsburgh Ivan Taylor CB Louisiana-Lafayette
126 Tennessee Rien Long DT Washington State
127 Buffalo Sam Aiken WR North Carolina
128 Denver Bryant McNeal DE Clemson
129 Oakland Shurron Pierson DE South Florida
130 Tampa Bay Lance Nimmo T West Virginia
131 Philadelphia Jamaal Green DE Miami
132 Jacksonville LaBrandon Toefield RB Louisiana State
133 Tampa Bay Austin King C Northwestern
134 Baltimore Ovie Mughelli FB Wake Forest
135 Seattle Solomon Bates MLB Arizona State

Round 5
Sel# Team Player piece of work. School
136 Cincinnati Khalid Abdullah OLB Mars Hill
137 Detroit Terrence Holt FS North Carolina State
138 Indianapolis Robert Mathis DE Alabama A&M
139 Chicago Bobby Wade WR Arizona
140 N.Y. Jets Derek Pagel FS Iowa
141 Arizona Kenny King DT Alabama
142 Cleveland Ryan Pontbriand LS Rice
143 Chicago Justin Gage WR Missouri
144 Detroit James Davis OLB West Virginia
145 Carolina Kindal Moorehead DT Alabama
146 Baltimore Aubrayo Franklin DT Tennessee
147 Green Bay James Lee NT Oregon State
148 St. Louis Dan Curley TE Eastern Washington
149 San Diego Mike Scifres P Western Illinois
150 N.Y. Jets Matt Walters DE Miami
151 Buffalo Ben Sobieski G Iowa
152 Cleveland Michael Lehan CB Minnesota
153 Kansas City Jordan Black T Notre Dame
154 Tennessee Donnie Nickey SS Ohio State
155 New Orleans Melvin Williams DE Kansas State
156 Miami Donald Lee TE Mississippi State
157 Denver Ben Claxton G Mississippi
158 Denver Adrian Madise WR Texas Christian
159 Atlanta Jon Olinger WR Cincinnati
160 N.Y. Giants David Diehl G Illinois
161 San Francisco Aaron Walker TE Florida
162 Indianapolis Keyon Whiteside MLB Tennessee
163 Pittsburgh Brian St. Pierre QB Boston College
164 New England Dan Koppen C Boston College
165 Seattle Chris Davis FB Syracuse
166 Green Bay Hunter Hillenmeyer OLB Vanderbilt
167 Oakland Doug Gabriel WR Central Florida
168 Tampa Bay Sean Mahan G Notre Dame
169 Miami J.R. Tolver WR San Diego State
170 St. Louis Shane Walton FS Notre Dame
171 Chicago Tron LaFavor DT Florida
172 St. Louis Kevin Garrett CB Southern Methodist
173 Baltimore Tony Pashos T Illinois

Round 6
Sel# Team Player piece of work. School
174 Cincinnati Langston Moore DE South Carolina
175 Detroit David Kircus WR Grand Valley State
176 Jacksonville Brandon Green DE Rice
177 Arizona Reggie Wells G Clarion, Pa.
178 Dallas B.J. Tucker CB Wisconsin
179 Jacksonville David Young SS Georgia Southern
180 Minnesota Eddie Johnson P Idaho State
181 Miami Corey Jenkins OLB South Carolina
182 Baltimore Gerome Sapp FS Notre Dame
183 Seattle Rashad Moore DT Tennessee
184 St. Louis Scott Tercero G California
185 Philadelphia Jeremy Bridges T Southern Mississippi
186 Dallas Zuriel Smith WR Hampton
187 Buffalo Lauvale Sape DT Utah
188 San Diego Hanik Milligan SS Houston
189 Kansas City Jimmy Wilkerson DE Oklahoma
190 Minnesota Mike Nattiel OLB Florida
191 Chicago Joe Odom OLB Purdue
192 Houston Drew Henson QB Michigan
193 Jacksonville Marques Ogden T Howard
194 Denver Aaron Hunt DE Texas Tech
195 Cleveland Antonio Garay DT Boston College
196 Atlanta LaTarence Dunbar WR Texas Christian
197 San Francisco Arnaz Battle WR Notre Dame
198 Indianapolis Cato June OLB Michigan
199 N.Y. Giants Willie Ponder WR S.E. Missouri
200 N.Y. Jets Brooks Bollinger QB Wisconsin
201 New England Kliff Kingsbury QB Texas Tech
202 Atlanta Waine Bacon DB Alabama
203 New Orleans Kareem Kelly WR Southern California
204 Oakland Dustin Rykert T Brigham Young
205 Tampa Bay Torrie Cox CB Pittsburgh
206 Chicago Brock Forsey RB Boise State
207 N.Y. Giants Frank Walker CB Tuskegee
208 Indianapolis Makoa Freitas T Arizona
209 Miami Tim Provost T San Jose State
210 Arizona Tony Gilbert MLB Georgia
211 N.Y. Giants David Tyree WR Syracuse
212 Green Bay Brennan Curtin T Notre Dame
213 Miami Yeremiah Bell FS Eastern Kentucky
214 Houston Keith Wright DT Missouri

Round 7
Sel# Team Player piece of work. School
215 Cincinnati Scott Kooistra G North Carolina State
216 Detroit Ben Johnson T Wisconsin
217 Houston Curry Burns DB Louisville
218 Jacksonville Malaefou MacKenzie FB Southern California
219 Dallas Justin Bates G Colorado
220 Detroit Blue Adams CB Cincinnati
221 Minnesota Keenan Howry WR Oregon
222 Seattle Josh Brown K Nebraska
223 Baltimore Trent Smith TE Oklahoma
224 Seattle Taco Wallace WR Kansas State
225 Tennessee Todd Williams T Florida State
226 Carolina Walter Young WR Illinois
227 Denver Clint Mitchell DE Florida
228 Buffalo Mario Haggan OLB Mississippi State
229 San Diego Andrew Pinnock FB South Carolina
230 Kansas City Montique Sharpe DT Wake Forest
231 New Orleans Talman Gardner WR Florida State
232 Washington Gibran Hamdan QB Indiana
233 Houston Chance Pearce C Texas A&M
234 New England Spencer Nead FB Brigham Young
235 Denver Ahmaad Galloway RB Alabama
236 Detroit Brandon Drumm RB Colorado
237 N.Y. Jets Dave Yovanovits G Temple
238 Atlanta Demetrin Veal DT Tennessee
239 New England Tully Banta-Cain OLB California
240 N.Y. Giants Charles Drake DB Michigan
241 San Francisco Ken Dorsey QB Miami
242 Pittsburgh J.T. Wall RB Georgia
243 New England Ethan Kelley NT Baylor
244 Philadelphia Norman LeJeune DB Louisiana State
245 Green Bay Chris Johnson CB Louisville
246 Oakland Siddeeq Shabazz SS New Mexico State
247 Carolina Casey Moore RB Stanford
248 Miami Davern Williams DT Troy
249 N.Y. Giants Wayne Lucier C Colorado
250 Baltimore Mike Mabry C Central Florida
251 St. Louis Scott Shanle ILB Nebraska
252 Kansas City Willie Pile FS Virginia Tech
253 Green Bay DeAndrew Rubin WR South Florida
254 St. Louis Richard Angulo TE Western New Mexico
255 N.Y. Giants Kevin Walter WR Eastern Michigan
256 Green Bay Carl Ford WR Toledo
257 Green Bay Steve Josue LB Carson-Newman
258 Baltimore Antwoine Sanders DB Utah
259 Cincinnati Elton Patterson DE Central Florida
260 Detroit Travis Anglin WR Memphis
261 Chicago Bryan Anderson G Pittsburgh
262 Oakland Ryan Hoag WR Gustavus Adolphus

 

[CargoJon]

Hey if we'd drafted Rashean Mathis we could have two dredded CB's one on each side of the field.

 

[marccooper]

Arizona just got Bryant Johnson and Calvin Pace with our two picks. They have become second stringers or members of rotations. We ended up with Jeff Faine, who was a later first rounder. It seems like Pittsburgh traded up to get Polamalu and the Chiefs got Larry Johnson. If there is one play that Pittsburgh could use, it is Larry Johnson. So technically Pittsburgh should regret making the move to get Polamalu.

 

[VishaL]

Hey if we'd drafted Rashean Mathis we could have two dredded CB's one on each side of the field.

FORGET DREADS WE WOULD HAVE 2 CB PERIOD

 

[hammernnails]

Arizona just got Bryant Johnson and Calvin Pace with our two picks. They have become second stringers or members of rotations. We ended up with Jeff Faine, who was a later first rounder. It seems like Pittsburgh traded up to get Polamalu and the Chiefs got Larry Johnson. If there is one play that Pittsburgh could use, it is Larry Johnson. So technically Pittsburgh should regret making the move to get Polamalu.

I never thought of that... but its a good point!!! I think the Steelers would trade Polamalu for LJ straight up right now even though they are high on willie parker..... so I must agree with you.....

 

[rlemieux]

I think a lot of people are forgettng that Sullivan, out of the DT's available, had the best college production of all of them. He was a very good player at Georgia and guys like Seymore and Richt spoke very highly of him. If you go back and read what all the draft guys said about him it was very positive, most saying he had a non-stop motor and played till the whistle.

Sullivan had (and quite honestly still does) the talent to become a very good DT in the NFL. What he didn't have was the desire. Why? I don't really know but something was strangely wrong from the time he was at Georgia to the time he spent here and with New England. Was it the big contract? Was it the fame? Was it the availabliy of anythnig he wanted? I don't know. However I have a strong idea.

Haslett's coaching staff had a severe inability to develop players. I have made several posts about this in the past, but I will revisit it one more time. It just seemed like no matter who we picked they ended up busting in some way. Even guys like Deuce McAllister underachieved at times. And for some reason Haslett always seemed like he wanted guys to be heavier than they should. For several years we all complained that Deuce was over wieght, and he was. Even a guy like Sullivan, who played in college under 300lbs, they wanted him at 315lbs here. Haslett era draft pickes seemed to regress with the years instead of progressing. Sullivan had a decent rookie year, then went downhill. In Courtney Watsons rookie year we were all looking forward to having a real linebacker for a change.

I still attest that no matter who we would have drafted they would have not had the sucess we expected because of Haslett and his coaching staff's inability to coach players up. Maybe not on the extreme level of guys like Sullivan and Watson (who have the ability) but in some similar way the players would have underachieved. Look at what Payton's staff did with what I believe is less talent. They have the ability to coach players up, to get the most out of the players they have. I would love to see a player with the abilities of Sullivan or Watson get a chance with a Sean Payton coached team. I strongly believe the team results would be drastically different.

Like I said, Haslett's record speaks for itself. While guys like Robertson, Williams, Kennedy, Warren, went on to have relitive sucess here is Sullivan with the death touch of Haslett out of the league after 3 years. I also think most draft "experts" at the time believed Sullivan was the 2nd most talented player of the group, behind Robertson.