Rebuilding takes time (1 Viewer)

Cajun Chat

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We all know where this team is in preseason. Yes, it is preseason. No one on this board is more concerned about the offensive line than Sean Payton. He knows the clock is ticking for his franchise QB. In the midst of that we began a rebuilding process about 2 years ago. Last year was the first significant step of what looks to be a solid core. Anthony, Breaux, Kihaha and possibly PJ Williams. By any measure that is a significant haul for an off season. Add to that this year's promising class and the rebuild is under way but it takes time to develop these players. Not everyone is a top-tier player coming out of college.

It's unusual for teams to reload at this level. If you look around the league its the New England Patriots and well uhhhh the New England Patriots. Our record in the SP era is near the top. Granted 3 of the last 4 years have been 7-9 campaigns and this year could be about that type of record...give or take a game or two but make no mistake the infusion of young talent is here.

The hard part is having at a QB who is in the twilight of his career. The concern is our QB is within that 2-3 year window of playing at a high level. If we can build on the last couple of years of drafts and free agency, its conceivable that Drew could finish like Elway did on the heels of Terrell Davis with a couple of Lombardi's.

This season adjust your expectations instead of Super Bowl or bust and enjoy the development of our young guys and know the ultimate prize maybe closer than it was the last 2 years. Of course we all want to win (I know each loss cuts me too deep sometimes) but if we look past the W's and L's the future looks quite bright. Leave it to SP to find our next franchise QB to go with this young group. It might help to readjust expectations for this season.
 

wnelson

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the last piece of the Seahawks puzzle was the Oline. we will be fine, keep stacking talent.
 

BCK30

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If that's the case the I guess the Saints will be scouring the waiver wave Tuesday or preparing to make a trade for some O line help.
 

JeffG20

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We all know where this team is in preseason. Yes, it is preseason. No one on this board is more concerned about the offensive line that Sean Payton. He knows the clock is ticking for his franchise QB. In the midst of that we began a rebuilding process about 2 years ago. Last year was the first significant step of what looks to be a solid core. Anthony, Breaux, Kihaha and possibly PJ Williams. By any measure that is a significant hall for an off season. Add to that this year's promising class and the rebuild is under way but it takes time to develop these players. Not everyone is a top tier player coming out of college.

It's unusual for teams to reload at this level. If you look around the league its the New England Patriots and well uhhhh the New England Patriots. Our record in the SP era is near the top. Granted 3 of the last 4 years have been 7-9 and this year could be about that type or record give or take a game but make no mistake the infusion of young talent is here.

The hard part is having the most important position of any team is who is under center. The concern is our QB is within that 2-3 year window of playing at a high level. If we can build on the last couple of years of drafts and free agency its conceivable that Drew could finish like Elway did on the heels of Terrell Davis with a couple of Lombardi's.

This season adjust your expectations instead of Super Bowl or bust and instead enjoy the development of our young guys and know the ultimate prize maybe closer than it was the last 2 years. Of course we all want to win (I know each loss cuts me too deep sometimes) but if we look past the W's and L's the future looks quite bright. Leave it to SP to find our next franchise QB to go with this young group. It might help readjust expectations for this season.

This needed to be said. Thank you.
 

GilFinnerty

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if Drew gets his 5 year guaranteed deal that cap hit can really hinder any rebuilding process. Roster of young players and UDFA with a 40 year old QB
 
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Cajun Chat

Cajun Chat

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if Drew gets his 5 year guaranteed deal that cap hit can really hinder any rebuilding process. Roster of young players and UDFA with a 40 year old QB
Gil it's definitely a concern with an older QB and a younger team. It's not often that you find a QB gem with a young team like the Seahawks did with Russell Wilson. Who knows maybe our QB of the future drops in our lap next year and sits behind Drew for 2 or 3 years.

I just think we are moving in the right direction. My major concern is the ability to move a couple of coaches like Johnson and Vitt. It's a loyalty at all cost for these guys but it's something we will have to live with. I think the positives outweigh the negatives in terms of where we are headed.
 

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Good post and I agree with most of it. I think we've started the rebuilding process, but it seems like we haven't gone "all-in" for rebuilding mode...or even close. Bringing in veteran FA's to get significant playing time (Byrd, Laurinaitis, Ellerbe, Spiller, Fairley..just to name a few) seems to contradict developing young players. I get that you need a mix of young guys and vets to teach young guys, but taking on vet FA's expecting to play big roles instead of sticking with a core of vets already on the team usually means fix something/win now.
 

Bill

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There's no doubt that the line play (mostly offense, but defense too) is the biggest issue that will keep us out of the post season mix for a while. The players we have now are showing us all that they have and improvement will be slow if at all. What is so disheartening is that these positions are among the hardest to fill/upgrade, often taking years to develop through the draft and free agency. We won't have the cap space to compete for the top free agents in the future, so we will have to have to get lucky with some new and lesser known talent.

No, this will not be fixed overnight. :(
 

natedog

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I am okay with the process, other then DE opposite cam, but that I guess will have to wait until next year. As long as we don't play like last year on defense I will be fine with the second year of rebuilding. Heck, maybe something like the Mike McKenzie trade will occur like it did ten years or so ago if things get too out of control on the Oline. . . . maybe a DE will get cut that we can somehow sign.

Like you said though, it is hard to watch Drew's final years go down under rebuilding years.
 

Saintshizzle

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Keep in mind, this rebuild started when Sean wanted to emulate Seattle, get tougher, stronger. Somewhere it has just not worked for Sean. He wants to maintain how he plays, while changing to be tougher, simultaneously. He wanted more say on defense, and began to make changes and coach on the defense, over the coordinator...Can be confusing. Even Rob Ryan said he was confused and wasn't able to be himself. Rob Ryan rips New Orleans Saints; 'I am a way better coach than I was allowed to be' | Local News - Home. Now , he has hired one of his understudies to come in, take over the defense, and he will have more say than when Rob Ryan was here...bc there wont be an argument. DA will just do what Payton tells him, even though it may not be good for the defense.

I don't know. I think Sean saw that what he was doing doesn't work in the NFL after 2012-2013: Can Finesse Teams Still Go the Distance in Today's NFL? | Bleacher Report and now he has changed, and lost who he was while trying to be something else. It's not that people dislike Sean, it was obvious that he has been trying to figure this thing out since he had that one year off in 2012, to watch. He knew his method wasn't competitive...and now he is trying any and everything, under the guise of rebuilding.

Sean needs to go and be a Coordinator under a defensive minded coach for about 3 years and watch, really watch. That way he can understand defensive talent, trends, tendencies, if he is going to really have the defensive input he desires. If not, hire a real Defensive Coordinator, not a crony, bring him in, give him the keys to the defense and just ask him to not do a bountygate. That way, Sean can go back to focusing on the Offense, and the Defense can have it's true leader, and we become formidable again, like when Sean and Gregg worked together, like Kubiak and Phillips are doing right now. Other than that, we will have him here, still trying to "rebuild"...but rebuilding to look like what? Still having huge say on Defense bc those are his guys he hired over there...and we will be rebuilding his entire tenure.
 

Pa.Saint

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I think its been a helter skelter approach. lets hurry up and throw together for Drews final years.
 

LombardiGras

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We all know where this team is in preseason. Yes, it is preseason. No one on this board is more concerned about the offensive line than Sean Payton. He knows the clock is ticking for his franchise QB. In the midst of that we began a rebuilding process about 2 years ago. Last year was the first significant step of what looks to be a solid core. Anthony, Breaux, Kihaha and possibly PJ Williams. By any measure that is a significant haul for an off season. Add to that this year's promising class and the rebuild is under way but it takes time to develop these players. Not everyone is a top-tier player coming out of college.
Kikaha appears to be a situational pass rusher who isn't special at rushing the passer. Anthony just got moved or demoted depending how you look at it, and we had to give up a young pro bowl TE to acquire him. Breaux has been a good addition but we lost our #1 corner Lewis, so the roster didn't actually improve just simply treading water. I also notice you didn't bother to mention Peat in that draft class.

The "rebuilding" process has been going on for several seasons and you admit it looks like another 7-9 season this year. So there's no measurable improvement after years of rebuilding. Don't make excuses saying that it "takes time" when the truth is we made too many bad decisions on contracts and in the draft. The state of the O line is infuriating. I think Sean Payton ate his own cheese or something because the excellence we used to expect from his team is no more.
 

WCoastSaintsFan

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Rebuilding does take time, but it also takes commitment to actually rebuilding. Since 2012 we've been putting together teams to give the team a last shot at a championship with Brees. That didn't work out and while I see signs of rebuilding, I don't see the commitment. Most of it has been forced by decisions made in the 12-14 seasons that we have to pay for now. I'm not at all angry that the FO did that, but it's why we've gone 7-9 for the last two seasons and will probably be worse this season. At some point you have to clear expensive contracts and older players, draft for the future (instead of the now), and have a vision for 3-5 seasons from now. At some point you have to try to do what the Colts did even if it may sound crazy.
 

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Keep in mind, this rebuild started when Sean wanted to emulate Seattle, get tougher, stronger. Somewhere it has just not worked for Sean. He wants to maintain how he plays, while changing to be tougher, simultaneously. He wanted more say on defense, and began to make changes and coach on the defense, over the coordinator...Can be confusing. Even Rob Ryan said he was confused and wasn't able to be himself. Rob Ryan rips New Orleans Saints; 'I am a way better coach than I was allowed to be' | Local News - Home. Now , he has hired one of his understudies to come in, take over the defense, and he will have more say than when Rob Ryan was here...bc there wont be an argument. DA will just do what Payton tells him, even though it may not be good for the defense.

I don't know. I think Sean saw that what he was doing doesn't work in the NFL after 2012-2013: Can Finesse Teams Still Go the Distance in Today's NFL? | Bleacher Report and now he has changed, and lost who he was while trying to be something else. It's not that people dislike Sean, it was obvious that he has been trying to figure this thing out since he had that one year off in 2012, to watch. He knew his method wasn't competitive...and now he is trying any and everything, under the guise of rebuilding.

Sean needs to go and be a Coordinator under a defensive minded coach for about 3 years and watch, really watch. That way he can understand defensive talent, trends, tendencies, if he is going to really have the defensive input he desires. If not, hire a real Defensive Coordinator, not a crony, bring him in, give him the keys to the defense and just ask him to not do a bountygate. That way, Sean can go back to focusing on the Offense, and the Defense can have it's true leader, and we become formidable again, like when Sean and Gregg worked together, like Kubiak and Phillips are doing right now. Other than that, we will have him here, still trying to "rebuild"...but rebuilding to look like what? Still having huge say on Defense bc those are his guys he hired over there...and we will be rebuilding his entire tenure.

So you are taking what's being said by a DC who has never been overly successful, whose defenses have always been lower level in the league and has been controlled by coaches and assistants in every job he's had as gospel? A guy who publicly said he had no idea what talent he was getting, yet Payton has a proven record of getting the players and talent his DCs need and want. There have been more higher draft picks, and draft picks total spent on defense than offense under Payton. Maybe his hiring of Allen is him saying that he's tired of the owning draft picks and money down a hole every couple years, let's get a young open minded coach who will actually coach what he has well. They were 3/4 to finish the season. That was directly because of the changes Allen brought to the defense.



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Saintshizzle

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So you are taking what's being said by a DC who has never been overly successful, whose defenses have always been lower level in the league and has been controlled by coaches and assistants in every job he's had as gospel? A guy who publicly said he had no idea what talent he was getting, yet Payton has a proven record of getting the players and talent his DCs need and want. There have been more higher draft picks, and draft picks total spent on defense than offense under Payton. Maybe his hiring of Allen is him saying that he's tired of the owning draft picks and money down a hole every couple years, let's get a young open minded coach who will actually coach what he has well. They were 3/4 to finish the season. That was directly because of the changes Allen brought to the defense.



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I gave Sean the BOTD, for that. Mostly linked it to show how Sean really began to dip into the defensive side of the ball, without much knowledge of that side. It stepped on the DC toes. He is trying to figure it out, when we possibly should have hired a DC, one that will say "I got this...you handle the Offense".
 

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