Reggie vs. Mario: Early returns favor Bush (1 Viewer)

[J.T.]

Agreed on Colston. Also a shame that he never made a pro bowl imo.

Reggie easily.

And Colston never making it to the Pro Bowl is a bigger travesty than Drew never being MVP. At least with Drew there was an argument to be made, Colston just got snubbed because of where he was drafted.

 

[rsmith2783]

Reggie was so important to the franchise. He was drafted before the Saints signed Brees I think. He was the one that brought the hype in 06 from the 3-13 Katrina Season.
Mario Williams couldn’t do that.

He's the reason we started having sold out games at the dome consistently. Something that some ticket holders do not appreciate til this day.

 

[St. PJ]

Do you remember the excitement you had, as a Saints fan, when the news broke that the Texans were taking Williams and not Reggie? I don't believe we'd have had half that excitement if Houston had taken Reggie. Also, the minute Reggie became a Saint, the Saints became must see T.V. We thought Drew would be solid, we were hopeful about his rehab, but I don't think anyone had any idea he'd become.

But back to the OP. I do believe where Mario has an edge is that he was more consistent in his production - the kind of production expected at his position. With Reggie, I wouldn't say Sean was inventing the wheel, but he was surely evolving and innovating on the ways Marshall Faulk and Tiki Barber were used. Maybe the niche of satellite back was in its infancy; Sean sure figured out how to create mismatches by exploiting what defenses are normally taught to do. If a RB goes here, a LB must do X at Y location (except when most linebackers can't do X at Y location against a guy with Reggie's specific agility and acceleration). Kind of the same way he would line Colston up at TE, and instead of DB1 covering WR1, he'd get DB4 covering WR1, because DB4 is supposed to cover the "TE" (or player aligned in the TE spot). Same way he exploited Jimmy Graham. Jimmy, for a time, gave WR1 production, because the LB or DB4 or combination thereof couldn't physically match someone that big and quick with body skills. For a time, our WR1 was a shell of himself and didn't dictate coverage of a DB1, but still received coverage from DB1 because he was a WR1 lined up in WR1 spot.

I think because of those things Sean Payton was innovate with, now, on both sides of the ball, teams are drafting and using "positionless" players... what they used to call "hybrid" players - like that tweener who could play on all three levels of the defense, at DE, LB, or S... or that TE/FB/WR... or a guy like Taysom. Simply, a guy who bends the rules because it doesn't matter so much as to where he aligns on offense or defense, he has a unique set of skills that will buck the trend of what is expected for a player in that alignment/position. I heard on draft weekend this being compared to basketball, where you have freaks like Zion or Anthony Davis who move so well at their size that they can do PG or SG type things as a PF or a C... this is the what I think Sean Payton should get the most credit for. This is where Reggie has the edge.

 

[DCSaints_Fan]

Williams may have had the better career, but in a draft redo I would still take Reggie.

 

[rsmith2783]

Do you remember the excitement you had, as a Saints fan, when the news broke that the Texans were taking Williams and not Reggie? I don't believe we'd have had half that excitement if Houston had taken Reggie. Also, the minute Reggie became a Saint, the Saints became must see T.V. We thought Drew would be solid, we were hopeful about his rehab, but I don't think anyone had any idea he'd become.

I'm in the minority here, but I wasn't really thrilled about the Saints drafting Reggie Bush. At that time I felt like Aaron Brooks got the raw end of the deal and that we should be focusing on our offensive line. I also felt that it would be disrespectful to Deuce to bring in another RB.
At that time I would have loved the Saints to draft the LT Ferguson and pick up Mewelde Moore in the 2nd round if we really had to take another RB. Of course i'm glad I was wrong.

 

[WxM]

Still an absolute joke that Vince Young was named rookie of the year. It was Colston by any measure that year. The media dropped him from their radar because he missed two games for an injury. Despite missing those two games, he was still easily the best of the 2006 class that year.

There's always some BS excuse from the media to deny a contested award from a Saint.

 

[Saintsphere]

They both did just enough and not just enough that you can't really criticize their draft order.

 

[sfidc3]

I'm in the minority here, but I wasn't really thrilled about the Saints drafting Reggie Bush. At that time I felt like Aaron Brooks got the raw end of the deal and that we should be focusing on our offensive line. I also felt that it would be disrespectful to Deuce to bring in another RB.
At that time I would have loved the Saints to draft the LT Ferguson and pick up Mewelde Moore in the 2nd round if we really had to take another RB. Of course i'm glad I was wrong.

I actually felt the same way. I thought our offensive line needed more attention. I also thought the comparisons that they were making (Sanders, Payton, Faulk) were ridiculous.

All you had to do was look at Reggies lower half and it was pretty obvious he wasn't going to be a 20 carry a game back....and that was the only thing I was right about on Reggie...

I knew he was a good receiver out of the backfield but didn't realize how good he really was in this regard, the other thing he was really good at (that is almost never talked about) is pass protection, he was a fierce blocker....a much more complete football player than I ever thought....he was the right choice at the right time.....

 

[rsmith2783]

I actually felt the same way. I thought our offensive line needed more attention. I also thought the comparisons that they were making (Sanders, Payton, Faulk) were ridiculous.

All you had to do was look at Reggies lower half and it was pretty obvious he wasn't going to be a 20 carry a game back....and that was the only thing I was right about on Reggie...

I knew he was a good receiver out of the backfield but didn't realize how good he really was in this regard, the other thing he was really good at (that is almost never talked about) is pass protection, he was a fierce blocker....a much more complete football player than I ever thought....he was the right choice at the right time.....

Exactly! That first season, him being used as a decoy was priceless. At that time, we really didn't know how good we had it. We haven't had a back with his hands and speed since then.

 

[BigOdin504]

You draft Reggie
It’s obvious
The city needed it
That year was a fun year to be in the dome

 

[Loose Cannon]

If you take off the homer glasses, Mario Williams' career absolutely destroys Reggie's.

Reggie:
- 0 Pro Bowls
- 1 All Pro (as a returner, not as a RB)
- 180th in career touchdowns and 155th in all-purpose yards, the two most important stats at his position.

- Mario:
- 4 Pro Bowls
- 6 All Pros
- 36th in career sacks, 19th in career tackles for loss


Not even close.

 

[gavinj]

If you take off the homer glasses, Mario Williams' career absolutely destroys Reggie's.

Reggie:
- 0 Pro Bowls
- 1 All Pro (as a returner, not as a RB)
- 180th in career touchdowns and 155th in all-purpose yards, the two most important stats at his position.

- Mario:
- 4 Pro Bowls
- 6 All Pros
- 36th in career sacks, 19th in career tackles for loss


Not even close.

I think you gotta take into account what each player did for the teams that drafted them, though. The Texans didn’t benefit from Mario Williams dominating as a Buffalo Bill.

 

[Loose Cannon]

I think you gotta take into account what each player did for the teams that drafted them, though. The Texans didn’t benefit from Mario Williams dominating as a Buffalo Bill.

Well, no, but we didn't benefit from Reggie Bush's 1,000 yard seasons in Miami either.

 

[saint_drago]

I think because of those things Sean Payton was innovate with, now, on both sides of the ball, teams are drafting and using "positionless" players... what they used to call "hybrid" players - like that tweener who could play on all three levels of the defense, at DE, LB, or S... or that TE/FB/WR... or a guy like Taysom. Simply, a guy who bends the rules because it doesn't matter so much as to where he aligns on offense or defense, he has a unique set of skills that will buck the trend of what is expected for a player in that alignment/position. I heard on draft weekend this being compared to basketball, where you have freaks like Zion or Anthony Davis who move so well at their size that they can do PG or SG type things as a PF or a C... this is the what I think Sean Payton should get the most credit for. This is where Reggie has the edge.

This is such a great point St. PJ. For years the NFL was so rigid when it came to positions. Most teams didn't have much of an imagination when it came to Tweeners. SP has never been afraid of thinking outside the box.

The best example of this was Marques Colston. The way he used #12 was genius.

 

[sfidc3]

Exactly! That first season, him being used as a decoy was priceless. At that time, we really didn't know how good we had it. We haven't had a back with his hands and speed since then.

Actually, while Kamara doesn't quite have the straight line speed that RB had, he is quicker, more elusive, and has way better field vision that Reggie ever had....I also think he is just as good a receiver out of the back field. I do think Reggie was a bit better in pass pro though....