Right or Wrong? Harvards Muslim women gym hours (1 Viewer)

[FWtex]

Curious to the opinion of others if they believe this is right or wrong in America. The liberals are going to destroy the foundations of this country. The same foundations that make this the country of choice for millions of immigrants looking for a better life.

Here are some of the quotes in the article. The link to the story is below and it has been on CNN this morning as well. If you disagree with my opinions I would very much like to hear your counter points. However if you only want to name call or ask for more questions without sharing your opinion then I'll just ignore you post.

BOSTON - In a test of Harvard's famed open-mindedness, the university has banned men from one of its gyms for a few hours a week to accommodate Muslim women who say it offends their sense of modesty to exercise in front of the opposite sex.

Where to start on this? Open-mindedness? give me a break. I thought the liberals were for inclusion for all, this is a policy of separateism based on a religious belief. Its not about nationality, sex, race, age, or anything else its about one specific religious culture.

Next ime you apply for a job or a loan or whatever requires the government statistics reporting, will it be OK if there is a box to check for "muslim" as you do for race? If the liberals have their way it will be.

"The majority should be willing to compromise," she said. "I think that's just basic courtesy. We must show tolerance and respect for all others."

The majority should be willing to compromise? Courtesy? Show tolerance and respect? This is my biggest beef with the muslim movement in America. Don't tell us what we have to do to appease your culture. You made the decision to be Muslim in America and it is your responsibility to work that around the majority of the US beliefs and cultures.

No men are allowed in the gym between 3 p.m. and 5 p.m. on Mondays, and between 8 a.m. and 10 a.m on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Even the staff during those times is all women.

The special hours allow the Muslim women, who adhere to traditional dress codes by covering their hair and most of their skin while in public, to dress more appropriately for exercising, said Susan Marine, director of the women's center.

"It's a pretty big breach of their moral and religious code for a man to see them with their hair uncovered and it's just not possible for them to be in a mixed environment," she said.

So not only are they making a policy on the students but the male employees are now being discriminated against based onthis policy. And again, to heck with their moral and religious code, its against our American code to provide special services to a specific block of people based on their moral and religious beliefs.

The liberals have agreed to remove religious christmas decorations and writings on government property, yet this religious sacrifice would be OK in their minds. I Would love to read their law school opinion on this issue.

Harvard's policy is no different from commercial gyms that cater partially or even exclusively to women, said Ibrahim Hooper, a spokesman for the Washington-based Council on American-Islamic Relations.

"The Muslim bashers portray it as the world coming to end, but if women have a couple hours a week to work out in private, I don't see it as a major issue," he said.

I am only a basher when one group of people feel others MUST bend to them in a free and democratic society, and I do'n't discriminate on that bashing. If there were a christian group that wanted to exclude all others from a freedom in this country I would bash them as well. If whites wanted to bash another race from working out with them, I would bash that group!

This is AMERICA. If there is a need for a Muslim womens gym, you have the right to open one in the country and no one will stop you. ITs called FREEDOM and its why you are in this country.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080304/ap_on_re_us/harvard_women_s_hours

The muslim movement is obviously in force because prior to the last few months I have not had strong issues and views on this subject as I do now. Lately I have been noticing a muslim strategy to chip away at cultures and customs around the world with small issues of "little" consequence and I believe its a strategy to numb societies.

Acceptance and change is good for society but not if its a one way.

Edit: I realize this is an inciting subject with one or a few moderators but please wait before merging this with the previous discussion.

 

[blackadder]

Curious to the opinion of others if they believe this is right or wrong in America. The liberals are going to destroy the foundations of this country. The same foundations that make this the country of choice for millions of immigrants looking for a better life.

Here are some of the quotes in the article. The link to the story is below and it has been on CNN this morning as well. If you disagree with my opinions I would very much like to hear your counter points. However if you only want to name call or ask for more questions without sharing your opinion then I'll just ignore you post.




Where to start on this? Open-mindedness? give me a break. I thought the liberals were for inclusion for all, this is a policy of separateism based on a religious belief. Its not about nationality, sex, race, age, or anything else its about one specific religious culture.

Next ime you apply for a job or a loan or whatever requires the government statistics reporting, will it be OK if there is a box to check for "muslim" as you do for race? If the liberals have their way it will be.



The majority should be willing to compromise? Courtesy? Show tolerance and respect? This is my biggest beef with the muslim movement in America. Don't tell us what we have to do to appease your culture. You made the decision to be Muslim in America and it is your responsibility to work that around the majority of the US beliefs and cultures.



So not only are they making a policy on the students but the male employees are now being discriminated against based onthis policy. And again, to heck with their moral and religious code, its against our American code to provide special services to a specific block of people based on their moral and religious beliefs.

The liberals have agreed to remove religious christmas decorations and writings on government property, yet this religious sacrifice would be OK in their minds. I Would love to read their law school opinion on this issue.



I am only a basher when one group of people feel others MUST bend to them in a free and democratic society, and I do'n't discriminate on that bashing. If there were a christian group that wanted to exclude all others from a freedom in this country I would bash them as well. If whites wanted to bash another race from working out with them, I would bash that group!

This is AMERICA. If there is a need for a Muslim womens gym, you have the right to open one in the country and no one will stop you. ITs called FREEDOM and its why you are in this country.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080304/ap_on_re_us/harvard_women_s_hours

The muslim movement is obviously in force because prior to the last few months I have not had issues such strong views on this subject. Lately I have been noticing a muslim strategy to chip away at cultures and customs around the world with small issues of "little" consequence and I believe its a strategy to numb societies.

Acceptance and change is good for society but not if its a one way.

To the extent this conspiracy exists I would say it is not unique to Muslims.

This started a long time ago in America and now they are just another minority group using established precedent to assert their rights in the same way other minorities do.

 

[Mamba]

Destined to be a classic.

 

[Deuuuuce]

I'm what you might consider a "liberal" and I strongly disagree with this policy.

HOWEVA, cmon man. Does it really anger you that much? The fact is that immigrants from other cultures DO have to accomodate to American culture every freakin day. They deal with much more BS than you and I as Americans do. This is just one small accomodation that one gym has made for them. There's still a huge disparity here.

Yeh, the policy is BS, but does it bother me, personally that one gym in the US makes accomodations for some muslim women? No, not really.

 

[bclemms]

If there were a christian group that wanted to exclude all others from a freedom in this country I would bash them as well.

We all know that would never happen.



Sarcasm aside, I agree 100% with you.

If they want to work out then they should go to one of the MANY gyms dedicated strictly to women.

 

[FWtex]

I'm what you might consider a "liberal" and I strongly disagree with this policy.

HOWEVA, cmon man. Does it really anger you that much? The fact is that immigrants from other cultures DO have to accomodate to American culture every freakin day. They deal with much more BS than you and I as Americans do. This is just one small accomodation that one gym has made for them. There's still a huge disparity here.

Yeh, the policy is BS, but does it bother me, personally that one gym in the US makes accomodations for some muslim women? No, not really.

Ok, I understand that view. I am curious as to where the line is drawn with you. As you say its just one small accomodation that one small gym made. Would you accept allowing Muslims to have their prayer breaks during working hours in addition to the normal breaks everyone else has? What about not prosecuting perjury against a muslim if they claim its the religious right not to have to speak the truth to non muslims?

These are admittedly drastic examples but I am just trying to see where your breaking point is.

 

[Bishop]

To the extent this conspiracy exists I would not say it is not unique to Muslims.

This started a long time ago in America and now they are just another minority group using established precedent to assert their rights in the same way other minorities do.

I'm not sure other minorities have asked for exclusive access to any form of entertainment or recreation. Blacks demanded the right to sit wherever we please, not to have "Black Day" at the movies. I agree the US bending over back-wards to force Spanish down our throats would be a good example of a minority's rights going overboard, though.

I feel that the Muslim women are welcome to start their own gym, or arrange after-hours access. They can afford Harvard.

 

[primadox]

We all know that would never happen.



Sarcasm aside, I agree 100% with you.

If they want to work out then they should go to one of the MANY gyms dedicated strictly to women.

Gotta agree on this one. It's not like there aren't other options for them. There are tons of gyms dedicated strictly to women. If there were no other options; if there were gyms that didn't allow them, etc., they would have a point. But instead of simply taking advantage of a legitimate choice that is available to them, they choose to make the other gym accomodate them (assuming that they pushed the issue vs. the gym offering the accomodation). I don't agree with that. Now, if the gym chose to offer the hours to them, that's fine, but if they demanded that the gym accomodate them when there are other choices available, that's where I would have a problem.

There are choices available...it sometimes boils down to whether or not a person or a group chooses to exercise their right to choose or decides instead to make a point.

 

[Broad St. Saint]

Harvard is a private university -- it takes some federal funding, and must abide by certain federal laws, but it has more latitude than say, UMass, a public university.

If they think this makes them a better university, IMHO, they should be free to do it, assuming it doesn't violate federal antidiscrimination laws passed under Congress' 14th Amendment authority. I suspect it doesn't, since I once was at Harvard, and they had segregated restrooms for men and women, and no one says boo. I suppose Harvard could have unisex restrooms if they wanted, like Ally McBeal, but has chosen not to.

 

[Deuuuuce]

Ok, I understand that view. I am curious as to where the line is drawn with you. As you say its just one small accomodation that one small gym made. Would you accept allowing Muslims to have their prayer breaks during working hours in addition to the normal breaks everyone else has? What about not prosecuting perjury against a muslim if they claim its the religious right not to have to speak the truth to non muslims?

These are admittedly drastic examples but I am just trying to see where your breaking point is.

I think that whats going on here is a breaking point and the policy should be looked at and thrown out. But at the same time, I'm not going to pretend that everyone is treated fairly in this country, especially immigrants.

If you're going to post and complain about this, then why not post and complain every time muslims are given hell for wearing turbons, etc....The disparity is still to great to pretend to get offended by things like this.

 

[FWtex]

I think that whats going on here is a breaking point and the policy should be looked at and thrown out. But at the same time, I'm not going to pretend that everyone is treated fairly in this country, especially immigrants.

If you're going to post and complain about this, then why not post and complain every time muslims are given hell for wearing turbons, etc....The disparity is still to great to pretend to get offended by things like this.

Thanks for your comments. In regards to the Turbons, Muslims are not prohibited from wearing them wherever they desire. I have not seen any signs that read, " no shoes, no shirts, turbons ... no service"

 

[blackadder]

I'm not sure other minorities have asked for exclusive access to any form of entertainment or recreation. Blacks demanded the right to sit wherever we please, not to have "Black Day" at the movies. I agree the US bending over back-wards to force Spanish down our throats would be a good example of a minority's rights going overboard, though.

I feel that the Muslim women are welcome to start their own gym, or arrange after-hours access. They can afford Harvard.

I'm thinking more about things like this:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003470331_trees10m.html

You have a minority demanding that another group abandon its holiday traditions unless that group also put up a display that covers the sensibilites of all possible minorities and their traditions.

I see it as a symptom of this kind of thing, the enforcement of multicultural P.C. standards and it has been around for a while.

 

[Deuuuuce]

Thanks for your comments. In regards to the Turbons, Muslims are not prohibited from wearing them wherever they desire. I have not seen any signs that read, " no shoes, no shirts, turbons ... no service"

No they don't. You're right, but just as an example a Indian immigrant was shown wearing a turbon on the jumbotron at the boston garden and he was boo'ed. That had to be humiliating. Let's not fool ourselves and say that these people are treated like Americans should be without discrimination.

 

[LSSpam]

Harvard is a private University. Therefore they can do pretty much whatever they damn well please (with the consent of the President and Fellows of Harvard College of course).

But on that note . . .

Harvard University today (Dec. 12) announced the creation of a University-wide program on Islamic studies, made possible by a $20 million gift from Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal Bin Abdulaziz Alsaud

http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/daily/2005/12/13-islamic_gift.html

 

[Bishop]

Harvard is a private university -- it takes some federal funding, and must abide by certain federal laws, but it has more latitude than say, UMass, a public university.

If they think this makes them a better university, IMHO, they should be free to do it, assuming it doesn't violate federal antidiscrimination laws passed under Congress' 14th Amendment authority. I suspect it doesn't, since I once was at Harvard, and they had segregated restrooms for men and women, and no one says boo. I suppose Harvard could have unisex restrooms if they wanted, like Ally McBeal, but has chosen not to.

Males accustomed to using the gym during those hors may feel discriminated against. Some have to work, etc. Those hours may be convenient to them. I'm not clear on how segregated restrooms would be similar to segregating the gym.