RIP Pete Rose AKA Charlie Hustle (1 Viewer)

[HoustonGold]

I wonder if people change their views on him now? Johnny Bench from a couple of years ago.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

I wonder if people change their views on him now? Johnny Bench from a couple of years ago.

I was a catcher bc of Johnny bench
And he’s exactly right from his pov
But of course none of this is a binary - bc of its history, baseball likes to believe it’s the most black and white of all sports - but it’s mostly grey area
The only absolute in baseball is their position on Pete rose

And I’m not sportswashing- Pete is 100% responsible for his actions (addiction discussion aside)
But baseball is comical pretending to be pure

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

 

[DaveXA]

I was a catcher bc of Johnny bench
And he’s exactly right from his pov
But of course none of this is a binary - bc of its history, baseball likes to believe it’s the most black and white of all sports - but it’s mostly grey area
The only absolute in baseball is their position on Pete rose

And I’m not sportswashing- Pete is 100% responsible for his actions (addiction discussion aside)
But baseball is comical pretending to be pure

No question. From doctored bats and balls and roided out guys smashing homers, sign stealing and everything else, the purity test fails at so many turns.

 

[Saintman2884]

Wilde was certainly not OPENLY gay
His boyfriend’s dad outed him and he sued the dad for defamation

From what Ive been told and discovered doing some research on late 19th century British society, he was far more open about his sexuality or not making it a secret to many influential London upper-crust British aristocrats and intellectuals that he was hanging out in many Victorian-era London gay bars.

Many literary historians and biographers have discovered nunerous LGBTQ-related themes, concepts, subtexts in his novels, plays, and writings.

 

[Saintman2884]

I was a catcher bc of Johnny bench
And he’s exactly right from his pov
But of course none of this is a binary - bc of its history, baseball likes to believe it’s the most black and white of all sports - but it’s mostly grey area
The only absolute in baseball is their position on Pete rose

And I’m not sportswashing- Pete is 100% responsible for his actions (addiction discussion aside)
But baseball is comical pretending to be pure

They don't like or appreciate that Rose lied about it for 17 years persistently including to many of his former teammates, friends who still supported him and believed he was innocent of betting on baseball. When he finally admitted the truth, some believed it was a calculated tisk, done against the backdrop of then-recent HGH/steroids MLB scandals to suggest "Hey guys, remember me? You banned me for doing something nowhere near as bad as what Barry Bonds, Mark McGuire, Jose Canseco, Roger Clemens have done" "Am I really such a bad guy now, by comparison?"

That's what some MLB fans viewed Rose's "admission" in 2005 as being and they didnt appreciate him lying for nearly 20 years when if he'd just been honest, owned up to betting back in 1989, he'd probably be in Cooperstown right now.

Also, Rose didnt help or endear himself to many former MLB greats, former teammates, and a few former MLB Commissioners as coming across as arrogant, spiteful, derelict, superficial and a bit of an unapologetic butt crevasse.

And being totally honest, Rose was an butt crevasse sometimes and an arrogant prick. But so was Ty Cobb, and 20x worse considering his racism, bigotry, attacks on physically-handicapped fans during his career, unashamed womanizer, alcoholic and irresponsible, abusive father. And yet, Ty Cobb is also in Cooperstown despite his many horrendous personal deficiencies or character faults.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

From what Ive been told and discovered doing some research on late 19th century British society, he was far more open about his sexuality or not making it a secret to many influential London upper-crust British aristocrats and intellectuals that he was hanging out in many Victorian-era London gay bars.

Many literary historians and biographers have discovered nunerous LGBTQ-related themes, concepts, subtexts in his novels, plays, and writings.

Well of course he was gay, and much of his writing was coded
- there’s an incredible movie called A Man on No Importance - Albert Finney plays a closeted Lorry ticket taker who reads poetry and plays to his passengers. He convinces a local church to let him stage Earnest , but secretly he’s trying to put on Salone
Finney at his best but dang movie still isn’t out on DVD
Anyway in Victorian society it was normal/expected for men to hang together and go to men’s clubs, et al
So just being with Lord Douglas was not scandalous
Wilde certainly pushed social boundaries, but he knew exactly where they were
But I would imagine Liberace and Paul Lynde were way more ‘out’ than Wilde

 

[buzd]

Well of course he was gay, and much of his writing was coded
- there’s an incredible movie called A Man on No Importance - Albert Finney plays a closeted Lorry ticket taker who reads poetry and plays to his passengers. He convinces a local church to let him stage Earnest , but secretly he’s trying to put on Salone
Finney at his best but dang movie still isn’t out on DVD
Anyway in Victorian society it was normal/expected for men to hang together and go to men’s clubs, et al
So just being with Lord Douglas was not scandalous
Wilde certainly pushed social boundaries, but he knew exactly where they were
But I would imagine Liberace and Paul Lynde were way more ‘out’ than Wilde

Prime video has it for $8 streaming.

DVD: https://www.classicmoviesetc.com/a-...PVCOpe-uoBpUniRWXKhVmGgwzRtB6yW3OVlcERrY9C63k

And if hanging out at Victorian gay bars makes you gay, then, well guilty.

And I never really liked Peter Rose.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

Prime video has it for $8 streaming.

DVD: https://www.classicmoviesetc.com/a-...PVCOpe-uoBpUniRWXKhVmGgwzRtB6yW3OVlcERrY9C63k

And if hanging out at Victorian gay bars makes you gay, then, well guilty.

And I never really liked Peter Rose.

Boy are my students going to hate you told me this

 

[Madmarsha]

And if hanging out at Victorian gay bars makes you gay, then, well guilty.

Just how old are you?

 

[Saintman2884]

Prime video has it for $8 streaming.

DVD: https://www.classicmoviesetc.com/a-...PVCOpe-uoBpUniRWXKhVmGgwzRtB6yW3OVlcERrY9C63k

And if hanging out at Victorian gay bars makes you gay, then, well guilty.

And I never really liked Peter Rose.

He was pushing social boundaries in ways that ruffled feathers and Wilde was a lot more open about his sexuality for his time period that really brought him attention. And a!so, in late 19th century England, even private, consensual homosexual acts could get one thrown in prison or institutionalized. These laws remained on the books until 1967 in the UK.


Whether one likes or dislikes Pete Rose as a person or views him as an butt crevasse isn't really the main point, its whether his career accomplishments deserve inclusion into Cooperstown. I believe it does.

 

[Saintman2884]

Well of course he was gay, and much of his writing was coded
- there’s an incredible movie called A Man on No Importance - Albert Finney plays a closeted Lorry ticket taker who reads poetry and plays to his passengers. He convinces a local church to let him stage Earnest , but secretly he’s trying to put on Salone
Finney at his best but dang movie still isn’t out on DVD
Anyway in Victorian society it was normal/expected for men to hang together and go to men’s clubs, et al
So just being with Lord Douglas was not scandalous
Wilde certainly pushed social boundaries, but he knew exactly where they were
But I would imagine Liberace and Paul Lynde were way more ‘out’ than Wilde

Liberace's.career, or his Prime was about 50-60 years after Wilde's death so, in his time and place, for such a still ultra-strict, rigid social and religious standards of mid-late 19th century, Wilde, IMHO, was a lot more daring and provocative and not necessarily with just his literary themes. He could mesmerize you with a great column on a recently-released book bit also "drop" you by essentially saying he liked just wasting your time by reading his columns.

Very sarcastic, snide, could come across as a bit of a smart-arse sometimes, but thats what makes him so interesting, IMHO. Whether he could irritate, thrall, enlighten, or educate you, he was great at getting to you. He got your attention whether you liked him or not and that sort of brazenness and fearlessness to push envelopes, you have to respect and admire any writer with that kind of determination.

The same reason I respect Allen Ginsberg, Burroughs, Thumper, etc.

 

[Mamba]

The breakneck speed at which this thread got self-indulgently hijacked into an Oscar Wilde conversation was… Pete Rose-like.

 

[DCSaints_Fan]

Every so often when the Rose in the HoF issue came up, the arguments seemed convincing. Then I would see him giving an interview and in a few minutes it changes back to “Yeah, eff this guy”

 

[GrandAdmiral]

Rose being in the Hall of Fame is a hill I'm willing to lay on. Dude made mistakes, just like a bunch of other players did and still do. Let him in you cowards.