Rob Ryan's DC tenure with the Saints (1 Viewer)

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I feel like this deserves its own thread........since the "Rex and Rob got fired" thread is/should be about both individuals, and not just Rob.

How did this guy get it so right for us in 2013, compared to 2014 and 2015? I know that a "quick front run" is nothing new to NFL coaching/coordinating.....Haslett as our HC did that in 2000. But in 2013, the Saints defense held their opponents to less than 20 points in 75% of the regular season games. They weren't known for blitzing....and managed to get pressure with the front 4. And they seemed solid at basic fundamentals...such as wrapping up and tackling.

I've seen some speculate that Jabari Greer's injury helped to derail things....but they still held opponents under 20 points in several of those remaining games after his injury. In addition, the defense kept the Eagles stifled enough on the road to where the Saints were able win their first road playoff game ever. And did more than enough in the divisional game against Seattle to keep the team in that game.

There's only so many things that can be attributed to beginner's luck. What the frick went so wrong?
 

bobad

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That's something only a close insider can say for sure, all we can do is speculate.

All I know for sure is, players can be won over quickly by some coaches, and more slowly for others. They will play their hearts out for the coach, but only the best coaches can keep their devotion for long periods.

Football is a game of pain vs reward. All other things being equal, teams who are most willing to endure the pain and give the most effort are most likely to win. The best coaches can sustain that for longer periods.
 

insidejob

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I think Rob is more concerned with his schemes and implementing them regardless of whether he's got the players to run it. We had a totally different roster on defense in 2013 than 2014 and he tried to duplicate 2013's success without altering the scheme to tailor it to the new players.
 

FootballLady

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When he refused to either cut his hair or go on a diet, he lost all respect from his players and that led directly to his downfall.

/sarcasm off
 

BCK30

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Both Rob and Rex's scheme rely on great cornerback play. When Jabari Greer got hurt, that started the downward spiral. Then, teams got familiar with what Rob wanted to do, plus Keenan Lewis got hurt, Junior Galette went rogue and was released which hurt the pass rush, and Jairus Byrd was damaged goods.
 

rsmith2783

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I feel like this deserves its own thread........since the "Rex and Rob got fired" thread is/should be about both individuals, and not just Rob.

How did this guy get it so right for us in 2013, compared to 2014 and 2015? I know that a "quick front run" is nothing new to NFL coaching/coordinating.....Haslett as our HC did that in 2000. But in 2013, the Saints defense held their opponents to less than 20 points in 75% of the regular season games. They weren't known for blitzing....and managed to get pressure with the front 4. And they seemed solid at basic fundamentals...such as wrapping up and tackling.

I've seen some speculate that Jabari Greer's injury helped to derail things....but they still held opponents under 20 points in several of those remaining games after his injury. In addition, the defense kept the Eagles stifled enough on the road to where the Saints were able win their first road playoff game ever. And did more than enough in the divisional game against Seattle to keep the team in that game.

There's only so many things that can be attributed to beginner's luck. What the frick went so wrong?
Rob actually did an interview a few months ago about what happened. Apparently after 2013, someone made the decision to change the defense into a Seattle type defense.

He also mentioned that the reason he was retained for the start of the 2015 season is because Payton didn't want to look bad for continuously changing DCs.
 

FootballLady

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Rob actually did an interview a few months ago about what happened. Apparently after 2013, someone made the decision to change the defense into a Seattle type defense.

He also mentioned that the reason he was retained for the start of the 2015 season is because Payton didn't want to look bad for continuously changing DCs.
Yep, he continually blamed everyone else for his shortcomings in that interview, going so far as to contradict things he'd said in previous interviews about those same players.
 

guidomerkinsrules

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That's something only a close insider can say for sure, all we can do is speculate.

All I know for sure is, players can be won over quickly by some coaches, and more slowly for others. They will play their hearts out for the coach, but only the best coaches can keep their devotion for long periods.

Football is a game of pain vs reward. All other things being equal, teams who are most willing to endure the pain and give the most effort are most likely to win. The best coaches can sustain that for longer periods.
i think there's a lot to this
college coaches can get away with Rah Rah a bit more since the time with players (both during season and for career) is much more condensed
but Rah Rah is only going to go so far/long in the NFL
you probably have some grizzled vets on their 5th DC (or OC) who've heard it all before - they'll try new ideas/schemes, but will quickly grow tired of barking coaches if it's not followed by Ws
 
OP

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Rob actually did an interview a few months ago about what happened. Apparently after 2013, someone made the decision to change the defense into a Seattle type defense.

He also mentioned that the reason he was retained for the start of the 2015 season is because Payton didn't want to look bad for continuously changing DCs.
That is probably one of those "the truth is somewhere in the middle" type of things..........so I'm not gonna just throw him under the bus and call him a complete liar like many fans did after that interview.

However, I will say there were 2 things that irked me about 2014 Rob Ryan (aside from the performance of his defense, I mean): 1. when he was making these big statements about how he was gonna "get crazy" with his safety packages heading into 2014, as if he was super-excited about the possibilities............and 2. when he was bragging on Champ Bailey in training camp and the guy didn't even make it through the end of preseason before getting cut. People get annoyed at Payton sometimes for his vague answers.....but when he's not sure about something, he's not usually gonna go completely to one side or another on that topic. Ryan, on the other hand, tends to do so.......and as such, it can hurt his credibility in the process.
 

Mojomajik9

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2013 was an illusion. Guys played wanting revenge for 2012 and Ryan kept it simple. 13-14 Ryan fully implemented his overly complicated, garbage schemes. Ryan is the worst coaching hire in Payton/Loomis' tenure. He set the team back by relying on Cowboy castoffs that never even played a down and demanding the team draft guys like SJB.
 

los226

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2013 was an illusion. Guys played wanting revenge for 2012 and Ryan kept it simple. 13-14 Ryan fully implemented his overly complicated, garbage schemes. Ryan is the worst coaching hire in Payton/Loomis' tenure. He set the team back by relying on Cowboy castoffs that never even played a down and demanding the team draft guys like SJB.
Rob Ryan didn't demand to draft SJB. That was all Payton wanting to imitate the Seahawks defense and trying to pick up a possible "Sherman clone". They also drafted him because of his size as the top WR's in the NFC South were all big receivers.
 

ELLIASJWILLIAMS

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Talent makes coaches. Buffalo's secondary is rather average. Conversely in 2013 RR had what amounted to an elite secondary. Malcom Jenkins, Keenan Lewis,Jabari Greer,Rafael Bush,Kenny Vaccaro,Roman Harper, and Corey White was a damn good bunch. There was only 1 rookie in that group and they were extremely lucky health wise until Greer got hurt.
 
OP

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2013 was an illusion. Guys played wanting revenge for 2012 and Ryan kept it simple. 13-14 Ryan fully implemented his overly complicated, garbage schemes. Ryan is the worst coaching hire in Payton/Loomis' tenure. He set the team back by relying on Cowboy castoffs that never even played a down and demanding the team draft guys like SJB.
I just don't know how a 4th overall defensive ranking at the NFL level can be a result of smoke and mirrors for an entire season. I mean, we've seen instances where rookie NFL coaches start off like 3-0 or 4-0 and then end up with a 0.500 or worse record, which would indicate that the players responded early to their schtick....but then reality eventually would set in.

I guess one argument could be that they simply over-acheived that season.....but a 4th overall ranking is a whole lot of over-acheiving. I've always felt that the 2006 defense was more of an example of a defense that played above their actual talent level for as long as they reasonably could.
 

Zztop

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Rob Ryan didn't demand to draft SJB. That was all Payton wanting to imitate the Seahawks defense and trying to pick up a possible "Sherman clone". They also drafted him because of his size as the top WR's in the NFC South were all big receivers.

Exactly. SP and his meddling... the first year RR probably had a lot of leeway. He also ran a lot of 3 safety sets, I think due to injury? I don't remember exactly, but it worked well.

The second year, the defensive scheme completely changed. And again in the next year, but also a combination of other inside factors. But this constant switching and unable to sit on one type of defense has been a trend for the past 10 years.

The defense has had no identity except for the superbowl year where they were 'opportunistic'. They weren't great at anything else, but due to Sharper, they had +26 turnover ratio.

Other than that one year they keep having an identity crisis on what type of defense they want to run. 4-3, 3-4, variations. Trying (and failing due to lack of personnel) to copy whatever team had the 'hot' defense that year.

That one year they brought in Spags, fired him the next, and switched to 3-4. So many flip-flops, and I can only think it has to do with SP trying to control every aspect of the team.

As we have seen, for the most part, that has not worked out very well.
 

Mojomajik9

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Rob Ryan didn't demand to draft SJB. That was all Payton wanting to imitate the Seahawks defense and trying to pick up a possible "Sherman clone". They also drafted him because of his size as the top WR's in the NFC South were all big receivers.
I got that from Mike Detillier:

The Knives are Out -- Mike Detillier - New Orleans Saints - Saints Report - Message Boards

It was Ryan who brought in numerous guys with ties to his former team, the Dallas Cowboys, in outside linebacker Victor Butler, defensive end Baraka Atkins, defensive end/tackle Kenyon Coleman and safety Jim Leonhard, who his brother Rex, coached with the Baltimore Ravens and the New York Jets.

Bailey, Butler, Atkins, Coleman and Leonhard never played a down with the New Orleans Saints in the regular season.

When the Saints selected Nebraska cornerback Stanley Jean Baptiste in the second round of the 2014 draft Sean Payton was really eyeing LSU halfback Jeremy Hill in Round 2, but the Bengals beat the Saints to the draft punch and selected the hard-charging Tiger back.

Scouts that were with the Saints at that time say that it was Ryan who really wanted the developmental cornerback.

After just one season with the team with virtually no playing time Jean-Bapitste was released. He has bounced around since being cut in early September of last year, he signed with the Detroit Lions-was released and then signed on to the Seattle Seahawks practice squad late in 2015.
I don't know why it's so hard to believe that Rob Ryan was not a good DC here because he hasn't been very good at any of his stops. Payton and the team never threw him under the bus after 2 seasons of historically bad defense, but the first chance Ryan gets he goes after the Saints and blames everyone else for his failures. Needless to say I'm not a fan of his.
 

ELLIASJWILLIAMS

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I got that from Mike Detillier:

The Knives are Out -- Mike Detillier - New Orleans Saints - Saints Report - Message Boards



I don't know why it's so hard to believe that Rob Ryan was not a good DC here because he hasn't been very good at any of his stops. Payton and the team never threw him under the bus after 2 seasons of historically bad defense, but the first chance Ryan gets he goes after the Saints and blames everyone else for his failures. Needless to say I'm not a fan of his.

I can believe RR was the guy that spearheaded that. #1 just look at how swiftly we moved on from him. We cut him b4 TC the next year. Quick wipe of the hands. Not to mention his history with Nnamdi Asomugha likely lead him to believe he could coach up/use a similar prospect. Though again..you still have to fault Payton a bit for wanting to move to a Cover 3 look with big CBs.

Also in RR's defense none of the big CB's from that class have played well. That includes the top pick to the Browns. Just based off that year of available CB's it wasn't a good time to go after that type of CB nor attempt to duplicate a Seattle defense. The talent to do it just wasn't available.
 

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