Roger Clemens.... (1 Viewer)

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Stop crying, stop whining, stop posturing. You really want to clear your name in the court of public opinion? Take a lie detector test. Pass and I guarantee most people would give you the benefit of the doubt. Until then you look like a little kid throwing a tantrum because you got caught with your hand in the cookie jar. This isnt just for Clemens, this is for all MLB players. (Well, mostly Clemens and Bonds because they have the most to gain from clearing their names.) Stop pouting and take a lie detector test or just shut up and accept the fact that your career is tainted with the stench of cheating.
 

Waymer

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Stop crying, stop whining, stop posturing. You really want to clear your name in the court of public opinion? Take a lie detector test. Pass and I guarantee most people would give you the benefit of the doubt. Until then you look like a little kid throwing a tantrum because you got caught with your hand in the cookie jar. This isnt just for Clemens, this is for all MLB players. (Well, mostly Clemens and Bonds because they have the most to gain from clearing their names.) Stop pouting and take a lie detector test or just shut up and accept the fact that your career is tainted with the stench of cheating.
Marion Jones passed a lied detector test...we all know how that worked out.
 

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He's a joke, Bonds is a joke and Marion Jones is a joke. Get Clemons off of my TV, there is a National Championship game tonight and Clemons doesn't deserve any media coverage. He's an embarrasment to a humiliated sport.
 
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Marion Jones passed a lied detector test...we all know how that worked out.
Ah yes, but I didnt say lie detector tests were 100% accurate. I said that most people would see that he passed a lie detector and say "Well he passed, he must be telling the truth" thereby giving him the benefit of the doubt and clearing his name in the court of public opinion. And thats all he wants, for people to think he didnt do it. I'd be willing to bet most people would think passed lie detector test = telling the truth with no knowledge of the possibility of false results.
 

Waymer

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Ah yes, but I didnt say lie detector tests were 100% accurate. I said that most people would see that he passed a lie detector and say "Well he passed, he must be telling the truth" thereby giving him the benefit of the doubt and clearing his name in the court of public opinion. And thats all he wants, for people to think he didnt do it. I'd be willing to bet most people would think passed lie detector test = telling the truth with no knowledge of the possibility of false results.
I agree, a lot of people would believe that. But even then, IMHO, he's already been convicted in the court of public opinion (even if he is innocent). Even once Marion Jones passed I personally still believe most people thought she was still guilty.

Does the fact that he filed a lawsuit late last night impact you or your thinking at all?
 
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Does the fact that he filed a lawsuit late last night impact you or your thinking at all?

No, not at all. In fact I think he is playing with fire by trying to take it to court. Best thing he could do, if he's not gonna take a lie detector test, is drop it. Stop bringing it up and eventually it will die down like everything else does. Dont go and perjure yourself in court. It could come back to bite you. If you cant tell, I 100% believe he and many other players have been cheating for years. I also dont buy Pettites whole "only did it twice" garbage, but at least he admitted he did it unlike Clemens.
 

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Steroids is the devil that Selig bargained with.

And he will get off completely untainted by any of this despite being among the worst sports commissioners, imo.

He capitalized on the juicing of players - probably knowingly - and now he can posture as if he is the righteous one seeking to rid baseball of this foul taint.

I don't buy anything he says and believe baseball is better off without him.

This does not mean that I think the players are blameless - far from it. Just that Selig should be facing harsher music than he's had to.
 
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this foul taint.
:hihi:

Im sorry. I tried to resist. I almost sig quoted it. :covri:

I agree though, Selig allowed this to happen for too long because chicks dig the long ball. I didnt know they also dug the 40 something pitcher that could still bring the heat though.
 

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I am a Roger Clemens fan but every time he was asked a difficult question last night about steroids, his eyes darted away from the questioner when he began a response, which is a tell tale sign of a lie. I bet he stays far away from a lie detector.
 

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Steroids is the devil that Selig bargained with.
Yep. Major League Baseball knew what was going on behind closed doors and elected to turn a blind eye. Steroids ushered in the increase in offensive production and homeruns that brought fans back to the ballparks after the ’94 strike. There have been books written about the “magical” summer of ’98 and about how the home run chase between McGwire and Sosa single handedly saved baseball. At the time, the chase was portrayed as a representation of everything that was pure and good about the game. We know now that it was anything but.

The evidence was right there in everybody’s face but, while the fans and media where busy living in denial, Selig and MLB were busy sweeping everything under the rug. Selig sold out the integrity of his sport for higher ratings, attendance and revenue. At the time I’m sure he felt he was making the right decision (and may even still), but the repercussions of allowing the steroid era to run unchecked for as long as it did will not fade away any time soon. Ultimately that will be Selig’s legacy.

I can certainly understand the decision Selig made, even if I don’t condone it. Baseball was dieing at the time and he did what he felt he had to do to save it. Even if the game is disgraced now, at least it still exists to be disgraced. But when it’s all said and done, Selig should have known better.

As anyone who watches “The Twilight Zone” will tell you, when you deal with the devil you never get what you bargained for
 

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Yep. Major League Baseball knew what was going on behind closed doors and elected to turn a blind eye. Steroids ushered in the increase in offensive production and homeruns that brought fans back to the ballparks after the ’94 strike. There have been books written about the “magical” summer of ’98 and about how the home run chase between McGwire and Sosa single handedly saved baseball. At the time, the chase was portrayed as a representation of everything that was pure and good about the game. We know now that it was anything but.

The evidence was right there in everybody’s face but, while the fans and media where busy living in denial, Selig and MLB were busy sweeping everything under the rug. Selig sold out the integrity of his sport for higher ratings, attendance and revenue. At the time I’m sure he felt he was making the right decision (and may even still), but the repercussions of allowing the steroid era to run unchecked for as long as it did will not fade away any time soon. Ultimately that will be Selig’s legacy.

I can certainly understand the decision Selig made, even if I don’t condone it. Baseball was dieing at the time and he did what he felt he had to do to save it. Even if the game is disgraced now, at least it still exists to be disgraced. But when it’s all said and done, Selig should have known better.

As anyone who watches “The Twilight Zone” will tell you, when you deal with the devil you never get what you bargained for
Selig and the owners were quite desperate to get people back in the stands and even on tv. I couldn't watch baseball for almost two years after the strike, but I saw it from time to time at a bar or flippin through channels. The stands were as empty as an Expos or Marlins game.

I, for one, was absolutely thrilled to see that baseball fans were not letting them get away with that strike (unlike basketball :covri: ).

All in all, I think Bud knew he could whether a roids conspiracy more than he could the reprocusions of the strike because people are in the seats again. During, and shortly after the strike, baseball was suffering and did what it could to excite people for the game again. Viola dingers. It gave baseball a major boost, but it surely has cost them big. But, who cares, the people are back and not many are leaving. So, as the bottom line goes, Bud made the right move.

Ridiculous isn't it?
 

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Hardly caught in the cookie jar. It was almost a decade ago and its being brought up now.

I just don't put much stock into it. Roger was always a big guy, even when he was on the Red Sox. Its not like over night his head grew 3 sizes and he put on tons of muscle. He gained alot of weight and about the only think that got bigger was his gut. Yeah thats what i'm gonna do today, inject some roids and sit around and get fat. He isn't a guy with muscles growing muscles like you saw some players. Also he never tested positive, has never been linked to any suppliers.

People say Roger is best friends with Andy, Andy did it, so Roger did too. Although I believe Andy was rehabbing an injury at the time and was hardly spending his time with the team. And it was very little use according to andy only using it 2 times while on the DL to come back faster.

Also that stuff breaks down your body, he is still pitching strong and is what 45 now. I'm not saying he didn't do it, or could never have done anything like this. But right now its a bunch of hear say, until they get something concrete i'm gonna have to Give Roger the benefit of the doubt, until I see some kind of proof.

Oh and for those of you who think Roger is just whining. He has one of the most storied carears in baseball EVER! Somone tries to throw muck on that, what would you do in this case. I'd try and clear my name, don't know about any of you.

Oh and the guy that supposdly injected him hired a lawyer to get sue happy, and I also hear he is writing a book, ala Jose Canseco. Making a buck to sell that story, are people gonna buy the book to read about Knobby, or do you think it may sell a few more copies if it had players like Clemens.
 
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Wow! Compelling stuff in the taped conversation and press conference.

I don't think it helped for those who thinks he's guilty but for those on the fence... he was persuasive.

Too bad he is taking away from LSU-OSU coverage. Bum.
 

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Stop crying, stop whining, stop posturing. You really want to clear your name in the court of public opinion? Take a lie detector test. Pass and I guarantee most people would give you the benefit of the doubt. Until then you look like a little kid throwing a tantrum because you got caught with your hand in the cookie jar. This isnt just for Clemens, this is for all MLB players. (Well, mostly Clemens and Bonds because they have the most to gain from clearing their names.) Stop pouting and take a lie detector test or just shut up and accept the fact that your career is tainted with the stench of cheating.
Everyone has their own litmus test for whether or not Clemens is telling the truth. We're going to find out a lot more about him in the next few months that should bring the truth to light.
 

Ti Rider

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I just don't put much stock into it. Roger was always a big guy, even when he was on the Red Sox. Its not like over night his head grew 3 sizes and he put on tons of muscle. He gained alot of weight and about the only think that got bigger was his gut. Yeah thats what i'm gonna do today, inject some roids and sit around and get fat. He isn't a guy with muscles growing muscles like you saw some players. Also he never tested positive, has never been linked to any suppliers.
Clemens didn't juice to gain muscle, power, or increase the speed of pitches he did it to stay in the game. Sorry if this hurts peoples feeling but there's a reason that every professional athletes careers ended in their late 30's or very early 40's before steriods and HGH. Your body breaks down and does not recover as quickly. While it's true people age differently, no one escapes the ravages of time. Even guys like Jerry Rice and Brett Farve lose a step. Juice helps extend the period before breakdown and help decrease recovery time.
 

Waymer

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Clemens didn't juice to gain muscle, power, or increase the speed of pitches he did it to stay in the game. Sorry if this hurts peoples feeling but there's a reason that every professional athletes careers ended in their late 30's or very early 40's before steriods and HGH. Your body breaks down and does not recover as quickly. While it's true people age differently, no one escapes the ravages of time. Even guys like Jerry Rice and Brett Farve lose a step. Juice helps extend the period before breakdown and help decrease recovery time.
Not necessarily a good analogy. Cy Young pitched until he was 44 and pitched more games than anyone in history, a whopping 815 (749 complete games). George Blanda QB'd the AFC title game at 43. There are exceptions in every generation. I'm not saying Clemens did or didn't, because I am on the fence, but others have matched Clemens on some occasions and still be successful.
 

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