Rudolph - Kittle OPI non-call / call (1 Viewer)

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Yelled it at the screen when it happened but what are you gonna do? One crew called it on the field, one did not. They simply were not going to second guess themselves to death with the new challenge rule this year.

Offensive PI in both cases in my opinion.
 

VikesFan2017

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Such inconsistencies in NFL refreeing change career arcs of the players.




Disclaimer: I'm not a PI expert.

What I heard on the radio is what the difference was that Kittle "fully extended" his arm. I guess fully straight.
But watching Rudolph, I don't see a bent elbow on his. Maybe a different angle showed something different.
To me they look awfully darn similar.

But my point is, how do you ref something like this? It's total judgement calls. Also, how do we know a defender isn't grabbing the arm to help make that "full extension" happen once it gets hit.

We have Aaron Rodgers faking facemasking calls against Detroit.

I guess we could argue Rudolph's call got overlooked because the NFL loves the Vikings so much they give us all these Super Bowl trophies. But in reality I just think it's going to be tough to call OPI consistently.
 

VikesFan2017

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Yelled it at the screen when it happened but what are you gonna do? One crew called it on the field, one did not. They simply were not going to second guess themselves to death with the new challenge rule this year.

Offensive PI in both cases in my opinion.

Or neither in both.
But from what I see they look the same. What in the rulebook says those two are different?
 
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Disclaimer: I'm not a PI expert.

What I heard on the radio is what the difference was that Kittle "fully extended" his arm. I guess fully straight.
But watching Rudolph, I don't see a bent elbow on his. Maybe a different angle showed something different.
To me they look awfully darn similar.

But my point is, how do you ref something like this? It's total judgement calls. Also, how do we know a defender isn't grabbing the arm to help make that "full extension" happen once it gets hit.

We have Aaron Rodgers faking facemasking calls against Detroit.

I guess we could argue Rudolph's call got overlooked because the NFL loves the Vikings so much they give us all these Super Bowl trophies. But in reality I just think it's going to be tough to call OPI consistently.

I agree its a tough call to make live, no doubt. But I see full arm extent on the Rudolph play. I also see the push movment at the end of the extension. I also see a defender's momentum clearly affected by the extended arm and his ability to make a play on the ball clearly affected.

It's all clear in super-slow-mo replay. Missed call, but not egregious given the speed of the game.

EDIT: I'm no PI expert either and not basing that on any knowledge of the rulebook. Just seems like common sense in hindsight.
 

RajCaj80

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Yes, it's a tough call to make at ground level, and in full speed.

That said, there is a new rule that allows for the review of these things...but was completely disregarded by the NFL head of officiating...because ego, undermining the authority of the officials on the field? I don't know...

As for the whole "the game's too slow already" argument...I'll take a slight longer & fairly officiated game any day over what the NFL is currently delivering. Also, just use your common sense with this. It takes 30 seconds & a few looks to get to a decision....yet they take so dang long to come to a conclusion on most of these reviews.
 

efil4stnias

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Such inconsistencies in NFL refreeing change career arcs of the players.



And of coaches and teams.


NFL must really hate Twitter lol

Its not even worthy of discussion any longer. Those in the know, they know. Those that dont want to know, will never know.

its really that simple.
 

BarBar

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I brought up the same thing. all we want is consistency.
 

VikesFan2017

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Yes, it's a tough call to make at ground level, and in full speed.

That said, there is a new rule that allows for the review of these things...but was completely disregarded by the NFL head of officiating...because ego, undermining the authority of the officials on the field? I don't know...

As for the whole "the game's too slow already" argument...I'll take a slight longer & fairly officiated game any day over what the NFL is currently delivering. Also, just use your common sense with this. It takes 30 seconds & a few looks to get to a decision....yet they take so dang long to come to a conclusion on most of these reviews.

I think they want to avoid reviewing too many plays.
If they start reviewing and overturning OPI's at a higher rate, there will be more coaches challenges.
It will eventually get to the point where every pass play where there was touching, they could need to review.

Then if we do that for OPI and PI, why not holding?
There are always missed holding calls, as well as holding calls that get called which weren't.


Did you notice a certain time in your life when you were watching football a game when you went from immediate celebration of a TD to a delayed celebration wondering "Is there a flag on the play?"
I do. I remember a certain point where suddenly after every score you would have to wait for the announcer to say "No flags on the play!" to confirm the TD.

The next step was instant replay. Any close TD.... "Wait... this will be reviewed". So it again delayed the gratification.

I think they are really working to prevent that because at this point, any game winning score, as a head coach, interference or not, you need to throw the review flag because it's your last option.

I think with the NFL opening the can of worms on reviewing for penalties, they are heading into a area they don't want to be in.
I would expect the review of penalties of pass interference to not pass the vote this next off-season after a one year experiment.

There was one really bad missed call and it happened last year in the NFC Title game with Rams at Saints. They reacted. Now they will roll back because they know there is no way to keep dealing with this consistently without ruining the game or going to sensor technology which is the last thing they want from a liability standpoint.

Once they start putting sensors on uniforms indicated a guy was hit like he got nailed by a truck, the game will be close to over.
 

VikesFan2017

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By the way, I will also say, I am shocked how many times the refs make the right call. That TD for KC yesterday was a fine example. Incredibly tough call to get right and upon review it was confirmed right.

That's a heck of a job to catch that live as a player is running to the pylon at the corner of the endzone.
 

RajCaj80

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I think they want to avoid reviewing too many plays.
If they start reviewing and overturning OPI's at a higher rate, there will be more coaches challenges.
It will eventually get to the point where every pass play where there was touching, they could need to review.

Then if we do that for OPI and PI, why not holding?
There are always missed holding calls, as well as holding calls that get called which weren't.


Did you notice a certain time in your life when you were watching football a game when you went from immediate celebration of a TD to a delayed celebration wondering "Is there a flag on the play?"
I do. I remember a certain point where suddenly after every score you would have to wait for the announcer to say "No flags on the play!" to confirm the TD.

The next step was instant replay. Any close TD.... "Wait... this will be reviewed". So it again delayed the gratification.

I think they are really working to prevent that because at this point, any game winning score, as a head coach, interference or not, you need to throw the review flag because it's your last option.

I think with the NFL opening the can of worms on reviewing for penalties, they are heading into a area they don't want to be in.
I would expect the review of penalties of pass interference to not pass the vote this next off-season after a one year experiment.

There was one really bad missed call and it happened last year in the NFC Title game with Rams at Saints. They reacted. Now they will roll back because they know there is no way to keep dealing with this consistently without ruining the game or going to sensor technology which is the last thing they want from a liability standpoint.

Once they start putting sensors on uniforms indicated a guy was hit like he got nailed by a truck, the game will be close to over.

But coaches only have so many opportunities to challenge plays. They get 2 per half, and are faced with losing a timeout if they are wrong.

Getting these calls right are especially important in the current version of the game because refs have been given authority to operate in that grey space of "technically a penalty, but not usually called a penalty". You had to flagrantly break a rule to get flags thrown back in the day.

I'll take a few less TV commercial time outs in exchange for a more fairly played game, given all the new rules and extremely low bar set for flagging people for them.
 

26ISTHEMAN

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They were both OPI. I dont really care anymore, we just cant let games be close to where the refs can mess things up
Unfortunately, this is the correct answer. The Saints will have to play well enough to avoid the inevitable horrible officiating from having an effect on the outcome of games. It shouldn't be that way, but it is.
 

26ISTHEMAN

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I think they want to avoid reviewing too many plays.
If they start reviewing and overturning OPI's at a higher rate, there will be more coaches challenges.
It will eventually get to the point where every pass play where there was touching, they could need to review.


Then if we do that for OPI and PI, why not holding?
There are always missed holding calls, as well as holding calls that get called which weren't.


Did you notice a certain time in your life when you were watching football a game when you went from immediate celebration of a TD to a delayed celebration wondering "Is there a flag on the play?"
I do. I remember a certain point where suddenly after every score you would have to wait for the announcer to say "No flags on the play!" to confirm the TD.

The next step was instant replay. Any close TD.... "Wait... this will be reviewed". So it again delayed the gratification.

I think they are really working to prevent that because at this point, any game winning score, as a head coach, interference or not, you need to throw the review flag because it's your last option.

I think with the NFL opening the can of worms on reviewing for penalties, they are heading into a area they don't want to be in.
I would expect the review of penalties of pass interference to not pass the vote this next off-season after a one year experiment.

There was one really bad missed call and it happened last year in the NFC Title game with Rams at Saints. They reacted. Now they will roll back because they know there is no way to keep dealing with this consistently without ruining the game or going to sensor technology which is the last thing they want from a liability standpoint.

Once they start putting sensors on uniforms indicated a guy was hit like he got nailed by a truck, the game will be close to over.
It doesn't matter what "they want." They put a rule in place to correct the problem, and they refused to follow the rule in the Saints-Vikings game. Rudolph clearly pushed off and got separation, but Riveron decided in his infinite wisdom that it was not OPI.

Challenges are limited. Coaches only have 2 or 3, so there wouldn't be any more challenges or delays if the league just applied the rule. They refused to apply it, and the Saints got screwed. Again!
 
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sfbaysaint

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By the rule, that’s PI in both cases. There’s no judgement at all. If you write a rule, you have to enforce it, period. Riveron is a clown. It was the nail in the coffin for me.

Riveron had an agenda... just don't overturn... and there is no remedy to correct his actions. He is like a king with no accountability.

There were two refs right there next to the two pylons where Rudolph "caught" the ball. No way they did not see it.

Edit: The pylon camera also shows the play
 
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