Run game early (1 Viewer)

mither_rome

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Looked to me like the Saints had LV off balance early and were absolutely bulldozing the Raiders on the ground only to abandon the run completely even when it was still a 1 possession game. I'll have to look at the play by play, but feel like even after Kamara was averaging north of 6 yards a carry after the 1st half, with Murray getting in some quality punches, AK didn't seem to take another handoff until the start of the 4th quarter, and then rarely thereafter.

I know the circumstances are evolving, but as great as Brees has been, it's not 2011. The Saints don't have to air it out like that. Just mind numbing, especially when your own defense was on its heels and were being subjected to methodical drives which left them completely gassed. This was terrible, non-complimentary football from Payton and Allen.
 

Xeno

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The Saints ran the ball a total of five times in the second half. Five. 5. Cinco.

This team played better with Bridgewater because Payton didn't trust him to make the throws so he leaned on the run game. Brees actually can't make the throws but Payton insists on slinging the ball around.
 
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mither_rome

mither_rome

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The Saints ran the ball a total of five times in the second half. Five. 5. Cinco.

This team played better with Bridgewater because Payton didn't trust him to make the throws so he leaned on the run game. Brees actually can't make the throws but Payton insists on slinging the ball around.
Wow. 5 times. Do you have to wonder why your 40 year old Qb can't push the ball downfield when there is little to no respect for play action? Maybe it's not totally an arm strength issue. Probably more of an inability to set up a deep shot.

5 damn times. That's just stupid football. TB was a blessing in disguise in setting a winning formula for last season.
 

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Looked to me like the Saints had LV off balance early and were absolutely bulldozing the Raiders on the ground only to abandon the run completely even when it was still a 1 possession game. I'll have to look at the play by play, but feel like even after Kamara was averaging north of 6 yards a carry after the 1st half, with Murray getting in some quality punches, AK didn't seem to take another handoff until the start of the 4th quarter, and then rarely thereafter.

I know the circumstances are evolving, but as great as Brees has been, it's not 2011. The Saints don't have to air it out like that. Just mind numbing, especially when your own defense was on its heels and were being subjected to methodical drives which left them completely gassed. This was terrible, non-complimentary football from Payton and Allen.
Payton’s coaching has been bad so far and DA was bad tonight esp on Waller and not making adjustments.
 
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Exactly. We had 3 possessions and a partial one with a min left. We scored on one.. one ruined by crack back and hold.. and one quick out. I don’t see a problem with the play calling. Unless ur talking about the def one
 

Nolan

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I cannot believe this crowd is out. Our one drive in the 3rd quarter was the drive riddled by 3 straight penalties. Our next drive in the 4th quarter down a touchdown had 2 runs and we couldn't convert 3rd and 7. Down 14 we scored in 3 minutes with mostly passes, and the last drive was a garbage time drive.

Please do not make this a thing. Payton wants to run the ball and it's obvious. Our defense could not get off of the field whatsoever.
 
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mither_rome

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Can't run the ball if we dont have the ball. Not sure what more you want. We had 1 drive in the 3rd quarter. We lost this game because the defense had zero answer for the quick passing game.
That 1 drive of the 3rd was pass pass holding penalty pass holding penalty pass pass pass punt. I would argue that not running the ball HERE was, other than the turnover, the biggest mistake of the game. You are still within a score at this point, and the defense is looking suspect at best. You need to possess the ball. You need to make sure not to cede almost the entire quarter to LV, yet that's exactly what happens.

They could have run the ball and changed the entire tenor of the game, but it was panic time once they were behind by one score.

What I want is better playcalling to AVOID what you mention. It's not rocket science.
 

Blackcricket

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The Defense recovered a fumble. What did Drew and the offense do with it?

Running the ball only lasts so long before opposing defenses decide to slow down the run. Then what? We can't get the ball past 20 yards. Defense coordinators aren't stupid and it's looking more and more, since the Vikings game, that neutralizing this Saints offense is simple.
 

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The Defense recovered a fumble. What did Drew and the offense do with it?

Running the ball only lasts so long before opposing defenses decide to slow down the run. Then what? We can't get the ball past 20 yards. Defense coordinators aren't stupid and it's looking more and more, since the Vikings game, that neutralizing this Saints offense is simple.
It was 24-17 when the Saints first got the ball in the second half. They ran the ball one time. There's no excuse for that when they were averaging over six yards a carry to that point.

It was still 24-17 on the Saints' second possession. They ran twice. Brees got a five yard completion and two incompletions.

It's time to stop leaning on Brees. Gameplan like he's Bridgewater because that's the ceiling on his throws now.
Nothing stops the run like an offense completely abandoning it for no good reason.
 

Nolan

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That 1 drive of the 3rd was pass pass holding penalty pass holding penalty pass pass pass punt. I would argue that not running the ball HERE was, other than the turnover, the biggest mistake of the game. You are still within a score at this point, and the defense is looking suspect at best. You need to possess the ball. You need to make sure not to cede almost the entire quarter to LV, yet that's exactly what happens.

They could have run the ball and changed the entire tenor of the game, but it was panic time once they were behind by one score.

What I want is better playcalling to AVOID what you mention. It's not rocket science.
I honestly just don't think you understand, man. Our first penalty on that drive came off of a..... run. Did you watch the game?

1st & 10 at NO 25
(9:58 - 3rd) D.Brees pass short right to A.Kamara pushed ob at NO 45 for 20 yards (T.Mullen).

1st & 10 at NO 45
(9:13 - 3rd) D.Brees pass short right to J.Hill to LV 39 for 16 yards (J.Hankins). NO-J.Hill was injured during the play. His return is Questionable.

1st & 10 at LV 39
(9:07 - 3rd) (Shotgun) A.Kamara left guard to LV 39 for no gain (J.Hankins; M.Crosby). FUMBLES (J.Hankins), recovered by NO-A.Peat at LV 38.PENALTY on NO-E.McCoy, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at LV 39 - No Play.


1st & 20 at LV 49
(8:41 - 3rd) (Shotgun) D.Brees pass short middle to A.Kamara to LV 45 for 4 yards (L.Joyner).

2nd & 16 at LV 45
(8:03 - 3rd) (Shotgun) D.Brees pass short right to A.Kamara pushed ob at LV 33 for 12 yards (J.Abram).PENALTY on NO-R.Ramczyk, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at LV 45 - No Play.

2nd & 26 at NO 45
(7:42 - 3rd) (Shotgun) D.Brees pass short left to A.Kamara to LV 40 for 15 yards (E.Harris).PENALTY on NO-E.Sanders, Illegal Blindside Block, 15 yards, enforced at LV 45.

2nd & 31 at NO 40
(7:12 - 3rd) (Shotgun) D.Brees pass short left to L.Murray to NO 49 for 9 yards (D.Arnette) [A.Key].

3rd & 22 at NO 49
(6:33 - 3rd) (Shotgun) D.Brees pass short left to T.Montgomery to LV 43 for 8 yards (D.Arnette).
After a zero yard gain on the ground with a holding call.. on 1st and 20 you want to run again for what.. say, 3-5 more yards? We passed for 4 yards and got into a manageable 2nd down. We then passed it for 12 on 2nd and 16, which is a great gain for the down and distance giving us a 3rd and 4, but Ramcyzk got beat and held digging us in a deeper hole. 2nd and 26, we get 15 but then get the blindside block (garbage call). Are you really saying that running on 1st and 20 or 2nd and 16 would have saved this drive? Either your memory is fuzzy, or you literally just don't understand. The playcalling was fine on that drive, we just can't hold 2 times in a span of 3 plays.
 
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mither_rome

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And running the ball helps keep your defense from getting gassed. They didn't play well, but the offense never holding the ball for long when they DID have it in the second half didn't help.
And you can make adjustments at halftime defensively, but the Raiders open the 3rd and march right down the field and score, so whatever it is you drew up in the locker room wasn't terribly effective. The offense gives the D a grand total of 4 game minutes of time to ride the pine and regroup before they have to run right back out when the drive is derailed by holding penalties. Serious question - how often is holding called on a run play?
 
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mither_rome

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I honestly just don't think you understand, man. Our first penalty on that drive came off of a..... run. Did you watch the game?



After a zero yard gain on the ground with a holding call.. on 1st and 20 you want to run again for what.. say, 3-5 more yards? We passed for 4 yards and got into a manageable 2nd down. We then passed it for 12 on 2nd and 16, which is a great gain for the down and distance giving us a 3rd and 4, but Ramcyzk got beat and held digging us in a deeper hole. 2nd and 26, we get 15 but then get the blindside block (garbage call). Are you really saying that running on 1st and 20 or 2nd and 16 would have saved this drive? Either your memory is fuzzy, or you literally just don't understand. The playcalling was fine on that drive, we just can't hold 2 times in a span of 3 plays.
"We passed for 4 yards and got into a manageable 2nd down."

4 yards. Meaning roughly an average gain on a run play. and kamara was averaging almost 7. is this a productive point? at all?

'but Ramcyzk got beat and held digging us in a deeper hole."
"we just can't hold 2 times in a span of 3 plays."

How often is holding called on a run play?

Your emotions are raw, brother. You're not seeing the logic here.

I'll concede your point though. This was really well thought out. They ran it the perfect amount.
 

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