Saints Saints 3rd WR: TQS vs Bennie Fowler (1 Viewer)

Saint Lattimore

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It will be interesting to see who steps up and claims the Saints #3 WR spot next season. As much as I love Deonte Harris and his explosiveness, he likely is not suited as a legit 3rd option at WR.

I think it comes down to TQS vs Bennie Fowler.

Fowler is around 10lbs heavier than TQS (both are at 6’1)... with Fowler also having the speed advantage.
Neither player has ever had as many as 30 receptions in a single season, but TQS has booked 5 TDs in each of his first 2 seasons (Fowler has 6 total, heading into his 6th season). With that said, Fowler has more experience in the league, with TQS entering only his 3rd season.
The reported “Brees endorsement” also helps Fowler... and I believe that is definitely worth considering.

So, how do you see this one panning out? Personally, I think Fowler has a leg up at this point.
 

DerrickB

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I wish we had a preseason to tell which of these guys had the upper hand at the third WR spot.
 

Zack Lee

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I wish we had a preseason to tell which of these guys had the upper hand at the third WR spot.
I posted about that in the Fowler thread. Unfortunately I think it gives a clear upper hand to whomever already held the position. Unfortunate because, well TQS. I hope for the best but expect nothing there. I guess they can both make it and just let It play out in games. If TQS hasn’t markedly improved then playing Fowler certainly couldn’t hurt.
 

Deucewildin

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I think it’s Smith spot to lose however I would like to see Flower come in and be a productive #3 or 4 as him and Smith both can play inside and out with 4.4 and 4.38 speed respectively
 

Crzycjunx76

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TQS
Fowler
Montgomery
Callaway
Harris
Etc...

The 3rd WR choice will undoubtedly vary on down, distance, match-up, etc, and whoever our 3rd most played WR is overall will still probably be somewhere between 5th and 8th in total targets on the team... and that would have absolutely nothing to do with ability or execution, just a function of the overall talent level of the team and the offense we run.

Also they will need to block and/or play key roles on special teams. Blocking and running your route crisply, even when you know you are the 5th option on the play, is essential to our offense.
 

Shadeaux

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I think it’s Smith spot to lose however I would like to see Flower come in and be a productive #3 or 4 as him and Smith both can play inside and out with 4.4 and 4.38 speed respectively
Can we all agree that he should be called 'Flower' from here on out please? 🌺








:sir-saint:
 

TribuneUK

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It will be interesting to see who steps up and claims the Saints #3 WR spot next season. As much as I love Deonte Harris and his explosiveness, he likely is not suited as a legit 3rd option at WR.

I think it comes down to TQS vs Bennie Fowler.

Fowler is around 10lbs heavier than TQS (both are at 6’1)... with Fowler also having the speed advantage.
Neither player has ever had as many as 30 receptions in a single season, but TQS has booked 5 TDs in each of his first 2 seasons (Fowler has 6 total, heading into his 6th season). With that said, Fowler has more experience in the league, with TQS entering only his 3rd season.
The reported “Brees endorsement” also helps Fowler... and I believe that is definitely worth considering.

So, how do you see this one panning out? Personally, I think Fowler has a leg up at this point.
I think Fowler is going through the traditional process of overrating a fringe contributor / camp outsider because people want to see someone take over from the workmanlike role player, who has had the audacity to not turn into a superstar.

So, no I don't see Fowler doing much.
 

TribuneUK

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I think we are really really weak at WR3.
My view on these kind of judgements:
SSF c.2015 'All we need is a true #1 WR'

SSF 2017-19 'All we need is a true #2 WR'

SSF April 2020 'All we need is a #3 WR'
Perspective is everything. We all have differing opinions, some are mutable and open to discussion, others less so.

I know that on this forum at any given time, for all the years I have visited it, there will be several concurrent threads at any given moment of the following varieties:

We need a WR
We need more deep threats at WR
We need a slot WR
We need a possession WR
We should trade for (this) receiver
(This) Saints WR needs to be upgraded
(This) Saints WR dropped a pass last night, he would be gone
We didn't win last night, clearly it's because we need another WR
Hey, maybe we should trade for this untradable WR
... And so on.

These are often seasonal, e.g. at mini camp time, every WR is a beast and we are going to be 'unstoppable' (ugh). Then after the first preseason loss, our WR suck and urgent action is again needed.

Free agency and draft period is like a hyperactive microcosm of WR posting frenzy:

We should sign (this) FA WR
Why haven't we signed this WR yet?
Why haven't we traded for this WR yet?
We should draft this WR
No, we should draft this WR
We should draft several WR from the following list
We should draft this WR in round 1/2/3/4/5/6/7 - and each time 'I can't believe he hasn't been drafted yet'
Why didn't we draft this WR?
We should have drafted this WR instead of that guy
We should sign these UDFA WRs
And...
Why didn't we sign these UDFA WRs

Eventually we then cycle back to the bounteous optimism stage, where every WR is going to break the rookie record for catches, touchdowns and yards.

Yes, I love it all. With a passion
Bottom line, the team keeps winning and it doesn't hinge on what the #3 WR can do as a pass receiver.
 
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TribuneUK

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Also, only 7 teams in the NFL used a 3rd WR less often than us in 2019. We hardly have a need.

And the combined WLT of those 7 teams was 69-43. Including three division winners, both no. 1 seeds and 5 playoff teams overall.
 

Zack Lee

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Also, only 7 teams in the NFL used a 3rd WR less often than us in 2019. We hardly have a need.

And the combined WLT of those 7 teams was 69-43. Including three division winners, both no. 1 seeds and 5 playoff teams overall.
that is an interesting stat but I’m not sold the records reflect that it is a better way to be. As comparison I would want to look at what we did in 09 through 11. I would venture to guess that our use of someone beyond the top two was probably higher than almost any other team. And the production of those offenses is hardly disputable. Now, those teams probably have much higher percentage going to RB and TE but I’m still betting the spread to other receivers was higher and though we didn’t have GCM we did have Colston which isn’t shabby by any standard.

that becomes more important in the playoffs than in regular season. Plus all this doesn’t even account for the biggest reason you need a good third and that is, what happens when they become number 2 due to injury.
 

Meachemdat

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I think this is the year TQS breaks out.
He was quietly one of Drew's primary Redzone targets last season until he got injured.
He's primed for a 700-800 yard season with about 7 TD's.

That's all you can ask for out of your WR #3

I see both Thomas and Sanders having over 1,000 yards.

I also see Cook having a huge season.

This team has so many weapons.
 

TribuneUK

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that is an interesting stat but I’m not sold the records reflect that it is a better way to be. As comparison I would want to look at what we did in 09 through 11. I would venture to guess that our use of someone beyond the top two was probably higher than almost any other team. And the production of those offenses is hardly disputable. Now, those teams probably have much higher percentage going to RB and TE but I’m still betting the spread to other receivers was higher and though we didn’t have GCM we did have Colston which isn’t shabby by any standard.

that becomes more important in the playoffs than in regular season. Plus all this doesn’t even account for the biggest reason you need a good third and that is, what happens when they become number 2 due to injury.
Sadly I can't give you a quick and easy comp between those years, as the helpful data at sharpfootballstats is just for the last few years, no doubt as informatics has improved. It would be great to compare and contrast.

That said, I don't see 2009-11 Saints football as the indisputable template for offensive football. For one thing, only one of those was a Super Bowl year, and for another we changed which positions/players were the focus of passing targets regularly in that period alone.

And in fact every year, SP tailors the scheme to the personnel, rather than the other way around. Which again says to me that we don't need to find a player just to fill perceived forum needs, because we use what we have brilliantly.

I'm not sure where your point about things being different in playoffs comes from. The team's playing 12 and 22 personnel all season carried on doing the same come playoff time, there's no discernible distance.

As for the 'what if someone in the front line gets injured', that's a wash as it applies to every position and every team in the league. You can't mitigate losing every potential starter on a roster, and that's just reality.
 

guillermo

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There is something we have been missing for the last couple of years.

It is that guy, who contributes with 2-3 catches a game, not flashy, running crisp routes, stopping, and giving Drew a reliable target to move the chains on 3rd down. Yes, it is the Lance Moore/Willie Snead role.

Forget the physical presence, Mike Thomas has taken this plus the Colston role. Sanders is going to help certainly but that 3rd down option will be an incredible compliment to Kamara, Sanders, Thomas and Cook.

I don't think TQS is the guy for this role, I see him more as in the Robert Meachem part of this offense.

It may be a surprise but the guy who should be taking this role is Austin Carr. He has been here for 3 years and this is boom or bust for him. He has the reputation of having reliable hands and running good routes.

To me what matters is the role players have, not if they are first or second receivers. If Carr can contribute with 2-3 first downs per game, plus around 5 touchdowns for the year, he will be an important contributor.
 

Nightshade

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TQS 24 years old is averaging 23 receptions and 5 TDs per season.

Fowler 29 years old is averaging 19 receptions and 1 TD per season.

TQS knows the system better

I would give TQS the edge

Fowler is more in competition with Emmanuel Butler, Jordan Humphrey, Marquez Callaway and Juwuan Jones.
 

Zack Lee

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Sadly I can't give you a quick and easy comp between those years, as the helpful data at sharpfootballstats is just for the last few years, no doubt as informatics has improved. It would be great to compare and contrast.

That said, I don't see 2009-11 Saints football as the indisputable template for offensive football. For one thing, only one of those was a Super Bowl year, and for another we changed which positions/players were the focus of passing targets regularly in that period alone.

And in fact every year, SP tailors the scheme to the personnel, rather than the other way around. Which again says to me that we don't need to find a player just to fill perceived forum needs, because we use what we have brilliantly.

I'm not sure where your point about things being different in playoffs comes from. The team's playing 12 and 22 personnel all season carried on doing the same come playoff time, there's no discernible distance.

As for the 'what if someone in the front line gets injured', that's a wash as it applies to every position and every team in the league. You can't mitigate losing every potential starter on a roster, and that's just reality.
i agree that those offenses were not the only way to do but unless the arguement is that those offenses Didn’t stay on the field long enough, it’s hard to argue against how proficient they were. Again and agin as we were running out to 13-0 the guys who breakdown games pointed out that there was just no way to cover everyone.

as for more important in the playoffs my point was that though I don’t think the old saying “defense wins championships” is the only rule anymore you can’t dispute that you still see a better defense on average. Even if you can’t take CGM away, if you take everything else away we will struggle.

and I agree with you that you can’t mitigate away all fallout from injuries, you have to be trying to improve at all times. If there is a place to work on a weakest link in this offense, it’s third receiver. If Sanders missed time that is going to be very apparent unless someone has stepped up their game big time.
 

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