Saints and Carr deal released $150M over 4 years $100M fully guaranteed (1 Viewer)

[Elvis]

This is partially true, but the rest of the story is that Sean Payton did the extra homework, and identified mismatches against the other team. Kamara alluded to this earlier in the season, rather than just calling plays based on our players skill sets, we would scheme to capitalize on mismatches for each individual defense that we played, this requires additional homework that it’s obvious Sean Payton and Drew Brees did that Pete Carmichael and David Carr are not doing this. It is what they could start doing that could still turn this offense around

I gave you a like until I read David Carr. Sometimes I feel like Carr has to succeed for both of them

 

[Rouxble]

-Dalton and Winston could not read a defense or diagnose a blitz, so the O-line looked bad and Carr's ability to do that would fix that issue

Interesting enough, Dalton had the 3rd highest passer rating against the blitz in 2022 (111.4). He was sacked on 4.9% of blitzes.

Carr's rating against the blitz isn't terrible (12th, 93.9), but he has been sacked a lot more (9.3% of blitzes).

 

[SWJJ]

I gave you a like until I read David Carr. Sometimes I feel like Carr has to succeed for both of them

Whoops

I don’t think David did it either, but he never had a chance.

 

[Mojomajik9]

That’s a hugs get. We weren’t in position to draft a top QB this year and probably wouldn’t be next year either. Carr gives us the best chance to win our sorry division and make some noise in the playoffs. Which is the best most teams can hope for.

Plus the NFC in general is weak. So who knows? A lucky break or two and we could really surprise people. I’m all in

Lmao what a dumb jerk

 

[PHSaint518]

Carr is the easy scapegoat for fans. He's the new guy that fans see the most and he didn't save the team like it was sold by the team and local media. But he didn't design this offense and he doesn't call the plays. He can't make guys block, catch balls or run the right routes and the responsibility for fixing that stuff isn't on him, yet we have coaches that just say "We need to get better" and that's it. So where you see unwarranted arrogance and disregard, I see Carr's frustration that isn't that different from ours in that this isn't working out the way it was sold to him either.

I think you’re understating just how atrocious Carr has been. There’ve been plenty of occasions where he’s had a perfectly clean pocket and he’s either thrown a wildly inaccurate pass (e.g, Shaheed vs Atlanta) or doesn’t see the field (e.g, throwing underneath to Johnson vs Detroit with AT Perry wide open downfield). Also, he’s a complete statue in the pocket and holds the ball for far too long.

Coupled with that, he absolutely is undeniably arrogant and refuses to take any accountability whatsoever. His answer to the question about assessing his play yesterday sums him up. All he had to do was say something about not having his best game and being grateful for having a top defense but instead just completely avoids the question. It’s clear as well that parts of the locker room don’t like him.

Dennis Allen is terrible, Pete Carmichael is terrible and Derek Carr is terrible. Those 3 things are not mutually exclusive and in this instance they’re all absolutely true. I look forward to the day their association with the Saints ends.

 

[jahsoul357]

What we used to see from Sean Payton was a scheme and game plans that fit our players. All I've seen from PC is a scheme and game plan that fits what he knows and he tries to shoehorn players into executing it and badly at that.

This is why I am on a rampage about this coaching staff. I don't want to hear about Carr, or MT, or Olave or even the OL until there is some accountability from the coaching staff. Or preferably an entire new coaching staff.

From Paytons mouth to PC's ears.

I agree with you 100%. The way that I for sure knew this offense last seasons wasn't the same as 2021 was the lack of play-action. That was the biggest red flag because we ran that heavy the season before and then as the game progress, it was clear that this wasn't a "Payton" offense but a Pete Carmichael offense that was not built around any player. I was screaming about the coaching staff week 1 last season..lol

Interesting enough, Dalton had the 3rd highest passer rating against the blitz in 2022 (111.4). He was sacked on 4.9% of blitzes.

Carr's rating against the blitz isn't terrible (12th, 93.9), but he has been sacked a lot more (9.3% of blitzes).

And have you ever took a peek of where our QBs in 2021 sat in that stat? Interesting..lol

 

[Que Que 6]

I was so happy and excited when we signed him, did not think it would turn out like this for one second

If I have 100 Raiders fans (probably), 100 of them knew EXACTLY what would happen this year with Mr. Hold it Forever/Rubs u the wrong way.

 

[Elvis]

I think you’re understating just how atrocious Carr has been. There’ve been plenty of occasions where he’s had a perfectly clean pocket and he’s either thrown a wildly inaccurate pass (e.g, Shaheed vs Atlanta) or doesn’t see the field (e.g, throwing underneath to Johnson vs Detroit with AT Perry wide open downfield). Also, he’s a complete statue in the pocket and holds the ball for far too long.

Coupled with that, he absolutely is undeniably arrogant and refuses to take any accountability whatsoever. His answer to the question about assessing his play yesterday sums him up. All he had to do was say something about not having his best game and being grateful for having a top defense but instead just completely avoids the question. It’s clear as well that parts of the locker room don’t like him.

Dennis Allen is terrible, Pete Carmichael is terrible and Derek Carr is terrible. Those 3 things are not mutually exclusive and in this instance they’re all absolutely true. I look forward to the day their association with the Saints ends.

I saw this on RevDeuce's twitter earlier today. It's a good example of why Carr with a clean pocket holds the ball too long. 3 receivers bunched up in the middle of the field and two covered perfectly on go routes. What is this play design? What is he supposed to do with plays like this? So we have plays like this, other boring predictable play calls, and calls that are wrong for the down, distance and personnel and he's supposed to overcome those as a mediocre NFL QB? Come on now.



As for the rest of your post, it's all emotional baggage that belongs to you and has no bearing on how a QB performs on the field. The claims of arrogance and lacking accountability is fan drivel that is not worth anything to me. I don't care what he thinks of the city, where he eats or how he conducts interviews. It's also NOT at all clear that parts of the locker room don't like him. It's clear that they are all frustrated with the season, but the comments being made can be read in many ways, including that the coaching staff isn't getting them ready to play. You are choosing to attach that to Carr because of your bias against him.

 

[boutte]

So his contract works out to $25mln a year?

How is that horrible? (Other than Carr being terrible.)

 

[PHSaint518]

I saw this on RevDeuce's twitter earlier today. It's a good example of why Carr with a clean pocket holds the ball too long. 3 receivers bunched up in the middle of the field and two covered perfectly on go routes. What is this play design? What is he supposed to do with plays like this? So we have plays like this, other boring predictable play calls, and calls that are wrong for the down, distance and personnel and he's supposed to overcome those as a mediocre NFL QB? Come on now.



As for the rest of your post, it's all emotional baggage that belongs to you and has no bearing on how a QB performs on the field. The claims of arrogance and lacking accountability is fan drivel that is not worth anything to me. I don't care what he thinks of the city, where he eats or how he conducts interviews. It's also NOT at all clear that parts of the locker room don't like him. It's clear that they are all frustrated with the season, but the comments being made can be read in many ways, including that the coaching staff isn't getting them ready to play. You are choosing to attach that to Carr because of your bias against him.

Has the Carr family hired you to be PR manager or something? You’re making excuses for an almost 10 year vet like he’s a rookie. And there’s no bias against him from me, I was on here quite happy when we signed him. Difference is I’ll happily admit when I’m wrong.

We all know there have been too many instances of receivers being bunched together but it’s happened a couple of times a game not every snap, so no that isn’t a good example of why he holds onto the ball too long. It also doesn’t explain his wild inaccuracy on throws to open receivers or just not seeing them. Another thing, we never saw this issue with bunched receivers last season and Carmichael was OC then so why the sudden difference?

As for the part about not being liked, I was referring to Michael Thomas live tweeting during games taking shots at Carr and McCoy losing his sh*t which we’ve never seen before.

On a separate note, Carr lacks football IQ. His explanation for the Bates pick 6 confirms that. A 10 year NFL vet who doesn’t know what the job of a free safety is. Would be hilarious if he was on any other team. Best bit about that play is, according to Underhill, the exact same thing happened in practice the week before.

 

[Elvis]

So his contract works out to $25mln a year?

How is that horrible? (Other than Carr being terrible.)

No, it's more than that in reality because of it's structure. If the rest of the cap was in order, we would be able to move on from him in early 2025 with it working out to 2 years, $70 million, but we'll have to restructure him because of kicking the can in the past.

However, some interesting things about his contract that are lost on this fan base that were expecting a top tier QB in Carr.

1. Carr is 16th in fully guaranteed money.
2. There are only 5 starting QBs, on non rookie contracts, that have less fully guaranteed money. Garropolo, Geno Smith, Baker Mayfield, Jordan Love and Jared Goff. All, with the exception of Love, are on their 2nd or 3rd teams. Of those, only Goff has played significantly better than Carr in passer rating or completion %. Only one of their teams, Detroit, has a record above .500.

I think this shows the overall mistake that the team is making trying to make something happen with a retread QB and the flaw in our expectations. The best QBs rarely leave the teams that drafted them while in their prime. The best teams draft their starting QBs so they can develop on cheap rookie contracts and draft one again if that player doesn't work out. We do the opposite. We sign free agent QBs that were busts for other teams and never draft early round QBs. The one free agent that worked out was Drew, but none before or since. We have not drafted a QB higher than the 3rd round since 1971.

 

[Deuuuuce]

I saw this on RevDeuce's twitter earlier today. It's a good example of why Carr with a clean pocket holds the ball too long. 3 receivers bunched up in the middle of the field and two covered perfectly on go routes. What is this play design? What is he supposed to do with plays like this? So we have plays like this, other boring predictable play calls, and calls that are wrong for the down, distance and personnel and he's supposed to overcome those as a mediocre NFL QB? Come on now.



As for the rest of your post, it's all emotional baggage that belongs to you and has no bearing on how a QB performs on the field. The claims of arrogance and lacking accountability is fan drivel that is not worth anything to me. I don't care what he thinks of the city, where he eats or how he conducts interviews. It's also NOT at all clear that parts of the locker room don't like him. It's clear that they are all frustrated with the season, but the comments being made can be read in many ways, including that the coaching staff isn't getting them ready to play. You are choosing to attach that to Carr because of your bias against him.

Totally worthless play design. You’re trying to open the middle of the field by running the receivers deep but then you have 3 guys in the same spot and is Kamara even on the field? What is the point of this play? Who is supposed to get the ball?

 

[No2DC]

So his contract works out to $25mln a year?

How is that horrible? (Other than Carr being terrible.)

I don't think anyone said it was an abnormal qb contract. It's the guaranteed money and how fast we can move on that people are concerned with. My understanding is that we stuck with him for at least 2 more years.

 

[St.Fury]

I’m not giving up on Carr just yet. While he’s been very frustrating, I’d like to see him under a new coach and OC.

 

[Elvis]

Has the Carr family hired you to be PR manager or something? You’re making excuses for an almost 10 year vet like he’s a rookie. And there’s no bias against him from me, I was on here quite happy when we signed him. Difference is I’ll happily admit when I’m wrong.

We all know there have been too many instances of receivers being bunched together but it’s happened a couple of times a game not every snap, so no that isn’t a good example of why he holds onto the ball too long. It also doesn’t explain his wild inaccuracy on throws to open receivers or just not seeing them. Another thing, we never saw this issue with bunched receivers last season and Carmichael was OC then so why the sudden difference?

As for the part about not being liked, I was referring to Michael Thomas live tweeting during games taking shots at Carr and McCoy losing his sh*t which we’ve never seen before.

On a separate note, Carr lacks football IQ. His explanation for the Bates pick 6 confirms that. A 10 year NFL vet who doesn’t know what the job of a free safety is. Would be hilarious if he was on any other team. Best bit about that play is, according to Underhill, the exact same thing happened in practice the week before.

Ok, so he's a mediocre QB on his second team because he wasn't good enough on his first team. Was that supposed to make the Saints a winner? How was he supposed to come improve what we were also terrible at last year? How was he supposed to overcome bad play design and play calling? How come nearly nobody else on this team has shown an ounce of improvement under these coaches?

So it's not excuses for Carr, it's setting the record straight about who he is, what the expectation should have been and who is responsible for it. The answers are that he is a mid QB, the expectation should have been roughly Dalton level play and who is responsible for it and much much more are the coaches and the GM. He's not stealing money here. He's being paid market value for a mid QB. That his contract is hard on the team because THEY missed on a free agent signing and manage the cap in a completely inflexible way is a problem of THEIR own making, it's not on Carr.