Saints and Impact Players (1 Viewer)

Conrad

Guest
Joined
Oct 2, 2007
Messages
695
Reaction score
0
Offline
I have way to much time on my hands at work

This is a position paper on the Saints need for an impact player in defense.
<o></o>
The Saints greatest weakness for years has been their not only poor, but sometimes embarrassing, defense. This can be blamed on a number of different sources coordinating/play-calling, poor performance of players or even lack of player talent. The Saints have had a different defensive coordinator during the defensive lull and poor player performance is a game to game problem. This post is focusing on lack of player talent.
<o></o>
By looking at the top defenses in the league this year perhaps we can get a glimpse of what brings success to these teams. An impact player is a player that is near the top 5 of players in their respective positions that consistently dominates.
<o></o>
The Pittsburgh Steelers [Defensive Ranking: 2007,1 ,2006, 9] This is a defense that has true blue chip talent and the defense is built around them. S Troy Polumalu is a top 5 talent at his position and the defense is built around him. NT Casey Hampton is a top 5 player at his position and again the front end of that defense is based around what he does. These are not just good defensive players they are franchise players.
<o></o>
The New England Patriots [Defensive Ranking: 2007,6 ,2006, 11] Another team that is based around having true impact players on defense. The Patriots have 3 1<sup>st</sup> round picks invested on their defensive line headlined by DE Richard Seymour a top 5 talent at his position. The Patriots are also active in signing franchise type talents at free agent with guys like LB Adalius Thomas.
<o></o>
The Baltimore Ravens [Defensive Ranking: 2007,6 ,2006, 1] The Ravens are consistently a dominant defense that feature again a number of high picks and true impact or game changing players. LB Ray Lewis, S Ed Reed, CB Chris McCallister and DE Terrell Suggs are all guys that are in the top 5 of the positions that they represent. It is not by chance that a collection of impact players lead to defensive success.
<o></o>
The Jacksonville Jaguars [Defensive Ranking: 2007,12 ,2006, 2] The Jags are another consistently dominant team on defense and they are built around two huge impact players in John Henderson and Marcus Stroud both high picks.
<o></o>
The Saints have only one player on defense that I would consider an impact player and that is DE Will Smith who does not rank in the top 5 of his position, but instead ranks in the top 10. The Saints do not have the exceptional, not just good or above average, talent base to build a consistently dominant defense. I agree that you need solid players at many positions on defense and that is another thing the Saints lack at certain positions. Even if you have a defense made up of solid yet unspectacular players you will only see a marginal improvement. The Saints can bring in 6 new solid players and their defense would most likely improve from terrible to no very good.
<o></o>
The Saints offense is built around game changing players QB Drew Brees is not an average QB, RB Reggie Bush is not your average RB and the same can be said for WR Marques Colston and Jamaal Brown. Why should the defense be any different it needs impact players.
<o></o>
True impact players on defense get drafted early and often as the top 5 tacklers in the league were all drafted in the 1<sup>st</sup> round [2 in the top 11]. The top 5 sackers in the NFL are made up of 3 first round picks [2 in the top 11]. 3 of the top 5 interceptors were 1<sup>st</sup> round picks.
<o></o>
The Saints need to draft a player that has the potential to be a cornerstone player in the NFL. They need more then a solid defensive contributor they need a guy that they can build around and feature in the defense. They need a Pat Willis or a Mario Williams. The problem arises that in this draft many of the players will be gone by the 10<sup>th</sup> pick and the chance of finding a player later are far harder. If you look back at the 2006 of the top 10 picks on defense there were 5 and all 5 have developed into true impact players [Mario Williams, A.J Hawk, Michael Huff, Donte Whitner, Ernie Sims]. Were as the rest of the defensive picks I only see 2 impact players [Cromartie and Wimbley]
<o></o>
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/index
<o></o>
This is a weaker draft class and in my opinion the Saints need to move up and grab one of the guys in this draft that have true impact player potential. The players with this potential DT Glen Dorsey, Sedrick Ellis and DE Chris Long, Vernon Gholston. These are guys that the Saints can accent with free agents and later round players.
<o></o>
You can not make a great steak dinner unless you actually have some steak. It is time for the Saints to stop serving baked potato and Caesar salad and throw some steak on the grill. <o></o>
<o>
</o>
 

Scott B

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Moderator
Joined
Feb 19, 2002
Messages
9,936
Reaction score
3,374
Age
49
Offline
I don't agree that the Saints have to move up in order to draft a player that will make a significant difference on the defense. You bring up Pat Willis, who was drafted 11th last year. Lofa Tatupu was gotten in the second round, as was DeMeco Ryans. You look at the 2006 draft, which was a pretty deep draft comparatively to some other drafts, such as last year, where the first defensive player that was taken was Gaines Adams, who played well at times, but wasn't really dominant like a top 5 pick should be. Same can be said for the third defensive player taken last year, Jamaal Anderson. Both picks were top 8.
 

meily

More than 15K posts served!
VIP Contributor
Joined
Mar 4, 2003
Messages
25,208
Reaction score
10,091
Location
Ann Arbor Michigan
Offline
I don't agree that the Saints have to move up in order to draft a player that will make a significant difference on the defense. You bring up Pat Willis, who was drafted 11th last year. Lofa Tatupu was gotten in the second round, as was DeMeco Ryans. You look at the 2006 draft, which was a pretty deep draft comparatively to some other drafts, such as last year, where the first defensive player that was taken was Gaines Adams, who played well at times, but wasn't really dominant like a top 5 pick should be. Same can be said for the third defensive player taken last year, Jamaal Anderson. Both picks were top 8.


Agreed, you can find talent in every round.
 
OP
Conrad

Conrad

Guest
Joined
Oct 2, 2007
Messages
695
Reaction score
0
Offline
There is talent in every round and I am not disputing that fact, but the serious talent in this draft is going higher then we pick. And Adams in Tampa towards the end of the year was starting to dominate.

If I were to break it down into percents I would give Ellis and Dorsey [80%] chance of being upper echelon players. I would give Rivers/Connors [50%] chance of doing the same.
 

seraph33

always lurking
Joined
Mar 25, 2004
Messages
425
Reaction score
33
Offline
There is talent in every round and I am not disputing that fact, but the serious talent in this draft is going higher then we pick. And Adams in Tampa towards the end of the year was starting to dominate.

If I were to break it down into percents I would give Ellis and Dorsey [80%] chance of being upper echelon players. I would give Rivers/Connors [50%] chance of doing the same.
I'm against moving up. Look at teams like the Patriots, Cowboys, Steelers. They never move up. They usually move down and stockpile picks (more the patriots). When you move up, it often causes you to lose too much. Look at the Sullivan pick. We had 2 first rounders for that pick. It usually just costs too much to move up. I think we are better served staying put and seeing if anyone drops to us. If no one we really want at 10 drops, trade back. It would be different if we were one or two players away from the superbowl. I'd say trade up, but we almost need a complete overhaul on defense. Now if Dorsey or Ellis happens to be there at 8, I wouldn't be mad if we trade a lower pick and player to move up there. I just don't want us to give up multiple picks to move into the top 5 to get a player. I'm excited about the draft. I think there's a good chance we end up with a couple of good players through the draft.
 

meily

More than 15K posts served!
VIP Contributor
Joined
Mar 4, 2003
Messages
25,208
Reaction score
10,091
Location
Ann Arbor Michigan
Offline
There is talent in every round and I am not disputing that fact, but the serious talent in this draft is going higher then we pick. And Adams in Tampa towards the end of the year was starting to dominate.

If I were to break it down into percents I would give Ellis and Dorsey [80%] chance of being upper echelon players. I would give Rivers/Connors [50%] chance of doing the same.


"but the serious talent in this draft is going higher then we pick"......we pick 10th....you telling me there are less than 10 guys worth drafting in this years draft? or are you like everybody else, who really wants a player so bad that there making threads about trading up, or trading down to get 'said" player?


this is a talented draft class, I think we can stand pat and get a good defensive player at the 10th spot, but thats how I feel, just like you feel the way you do (needing to trade up) so i'm not trying to hate on your post.....but were picking 10th were in a good position to kick start our draft....this is gonna be a fun draft.
 

atceagle

BRING THE WOOD!
Joined
Nov 12, 2003
Messages
4,822
Reaction score
1,523
Age
46
Location
Biloxi
Offline
what is your criteria to say someone is a Top 5 talent at their position?
 
OP
Conrad

Conrad

Guest
Joined
Oct 2, 2007
Messages
695
Reaction score
0
Offline
"but the serious talent in this draft is going higher then we pick"......we pick 10th....you telling me there are less than 10 guys worth drafting in this years draft? or are you like everybody else, who really wants a player so bad that there making threads about trading up, or trading down to get 'said" player?


this is a talented draft class, I think we can stand pat and get a good defensive player at the 10th spot, but thats how I feel, just like you feel the way you do (needing to trade up) so i'm not trying to hate on your post.....but were picking 10th were in a good position to kick start our draft....this is gonna be a fun draft.
There will not be any elite defensive talent at 10. If River or Connors had been in last years class they would have been 2nd round picks.
 

birdog

SR is my life!
Joined
Apr 27, 2006
Messages
11,467
Reaction score
3,640
Offline
"but the serious talent in this draft is going higher then we pick"......we pick 10th....you telling me there are less than 10 guys worth drafting in this years draft? or are you like everybody else, who really wants a player so bad that there making threads about trading up, or trading down to get 'said" player?


this is a talented draft class, I think we can stand pat and get a good defensive player at the 10th spot, but thats how I feel, just like you feel the way you do (needing to trade up) so i'm not trying to hate on your post.....but were picking 10th were in a good position to kick start our draft....this is gonna be a fun draft.
I think he means a GAME CHANGING IMPACT PLAYER. Right now all those players are ahead of the 10th spot. All those players he mentions are projected to go higher than the 10th slot.
 

harry383

Guest
Joined
May 16, 2005
Messages
1,218
Reaction score
26
Offline
I dont want to move up unless Dorsey falls to pick 5...thats as far as i'm moving and he is the only player i would move up for....LB is deep and so is CB...they are just not top heavy
 

Scott B

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Moderator
Joined
Feb 19, 2002
Messages
9,936
Reaction score
3,374
Age
49
Offline
There will not be any elite defensive talent at 10. If River or Connors had been in last years class they would have been 2nd round picks.
so what you are saying is Rivers and Connors are second round talent that happen to be in a weak draft?
 

kooldak

Retired
Administrator
Super Moderator
Platinum VIP Contributor
Joined
Sep 30, 2004
Messages
22,798
Reaction score
2,719
Location
Mountains of Southern Colorado
Offline
"but the serious talent in this draft is going higher then we pick"......we pick 10th....you telling me there are less than 10 guys worth drafting in this years draft? or are you like everybody else, who really wants a player so bad that there making threads about trading up, or trading down to get 'said" player?...
Agendas become rather obvious after enough posts and thread starts, don't they? :hihi:
 
OP
Conrad

Conrad

Guest
Joined
Oct 2, 2007
Messages
695
Reaction score
0
Offline
so what you are saying is Rivers and Connors are second round talent that happen to be in a weak draft?
Rivers might be a 1st round pick in last years draft but he would not get picked ahead of Willis or Beason.
 

kenny59715

Pro-Bowler
Joined
Oct 4, 2004
Messages
680
Reaction score
34
Age
43
Offline
I would personally love to see us trade Down with Dallas and pick up another 1st rounder, and then if the opportunity presents itself again in the 2nd trade down with Buffalo and pick up their 2 3rd rounders. That would give us 5 picks in the 1st 3 rounds (2 1st rounders and 3 3rd rounders). I just think we need so much on Defense that the more chances you get in the 1st 4 rounds the better chance you will hit the jackpot with a game changing performer on the D side of the ball.
 

meily

More than 15K posts served!
VIP Contributor
Joined
Mar 4, 2003
Messages
25,208
Reaction score
10,091
Location
Ann Arbor Michigan
Offline
As long as we stock pile defensive talent I honestly will like each player we pick (that's just me) and think they all have potential to eventually shine, so if the player I want (Ellis, Rivers) aren't picked, I'm still gonna like the selection (unless its offense)
 
OP
Conrad

Conrad

Guest
Joined
Oct 2, 2007
Messages
695
Reaction score
0
Offline
I agree right now I have a list that I would love to have

1. Ellis
2. Dorsey
3. Highsmith
4. Rivers
5. Leodis McKlevin
 

Create an account or login to comment

You must be a member in order to leave a comment

Create account

Create an account on our community. It's easy!

Log in

Already have an account? Log in here.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)



Headlines

Top Bottom