Saints & Bills History and Trivia (1 Viewer)

[saintsfirst]

all this happened long before may time keep the memories coming I so enjoy reading about it and I bet others will as well

 

[Saints & Devils]

for those who may have not seen this pic

so no chin strap, kicker bar, looks like no shoulder pads... I don't think Brees would be playing as confident as he does in the same situation...

This should be factored in to the "best Saints QB" argument me thinks...

 

[Saintman2884]

IIRC, OJ Simpson had some reservations about going to play in Buffalo after he was drafted by them in 1969. If I'm not mistaken, he may have told the Bills to not pick him with the first overall pick or maybe he inferred that they look for another prospect. Whatever the circumstances, he eventually relented and signed on to the Bills after a lengthy holdout during training camp. And the rest is history as we so often say. I think this incident influenced later top collegiate players like Tony Dorsett and John Elway to use some hard line tactics against mediocre NFL teams as a way of it ruining their pro careers. Dorsett told the Seahawks before the 1977 Draft to go over his name while they were on the clock, otherwise he wouldn't report to the team. It sounds a bit self-centered in hindsight because the Seahawks under Jim Zorn and Steve Largent got to be a pretty good team soon enough. We can only imagine how those Seahawks teams would've looked with Dorsett as the RB instead of Curt Warner. But the decision he made has to be looked at in context.

The Colts when they drafted John Elway were a troubled team in a hostile city with an owner who was desperately trying to get out of town. Robert Irsay inherited a lot of problems nearly a decade before from Carroll Rosenbloom in a franchise ownership swap between LA and Baltimore. An old outdated stadium with terrible utilities and one that was located in a rough part of Baltimore, it was a hard deal to manage for any owner,much less one who wasn't the most accessible man in town. Even when the Colts had a mid-70's resurgence under Bert Jones and HC Ted Marchibroda, the fan base and Irsay had an uneasy relationship even if their team for a while was considered a serious SB contender. It all boiled over by the early 80's and the damage was irrevocable. The Maryland State Legislature was threatening to take the team through Eminent Domain meanwhile Irsay was opening secret negotiations with the city of Indianapolis to move the team there in the middle of the night like ransacking thieves on the run. Very cloak and dagger-ish IMO.

Amidst all this scenery, John Elway saw that any career as a Colts QB was going to be unfulfilled and tainted with off the field problems. So he said no when the Colts drafted him and threatened to play pro baseball with the Yankees until a trade with a team on the West Coast came about.

The Colts traded their 1st round pick away to the Denver Broncos and the rest is also history.

 

[Cuozzo67]

a

Saintman2884:

I do remember that Simpson wasn't exactly thrilled with the idea of going to Buffalo. He talked about going into the entertainment business doing TV and movies) rather than playing in Buffalo, but he really had few alternatives. He did do a few parts in shows like Medical Center, Emergency! and Dragnet.

The team played in a run-down stadium and was coming off a 1-12-1 season. Their QB (Jack Kemp) was nearing the end of his career as well. They hired John Rauch, ex-Raiders HC, when he and Al Davis had a falling out. Rauch was primarily interested in throwing (not running) the ball. Simpson often complained about Rauch during his 2 seasons as HC (69-70). It wasn't until Lou Saban's arrival (1972) that his career blossomed.

There aren't many around who still remember the big "franchise switch" between Rosenbloom and Irsay in 1972. The Rams under Rosenbloom, after 1 losing season in 1972, went on to win several division championships in a row under Chuck Knox. The Colts (under Irsay) hired Joe Thomas as G.M., and he immediately began getting rid of the old veterans on the Colts team. Thomas had been the GM in Miami and accumulated loads of talented players through his drafts and trades. Within a year, Unitas, Matte, Mackey and several others were shipped out of Baltimore. Thomas then swindled the Saints out of the 2nd overall draft choice in 1973 to select Bert Jones. The Saints ended up with Billy Newsome and Jim Merlo. The Colts went through several coaches under Irsay, including McCafferty, Schellenberger, Marchibroda, McCormick, and Frank Kush. They managed only three winning seasons (75-77) and skipped town after the 1983 season. Elway had threatened not to sign with the Colts, and to play pro baseball with the Yankees. Then came the trade w/Denver for Chris Hinton, Mark Hermann, and draft choices.

Ironically, Joe Thomas ended up as GM of the 49'ers and engineered one of the worst trades in NFL history, when he acquired a pretty much washed-up O.J. Simpson from the Bills for several high draft choices, including 2 first round picks.

As far as the Seahawks, they had the chance to get Chuck Muncie in the 1976 draft but passed and instead took Steve Niehaus, a DT from Notre Dame. Then in 1977, the Bucs took Ricky Bell, and the Seahawks had a chance for Dorsett. Instead, they traded the pick to Dallas for players and draft choices that didn't amount to very much. Seattle was relatively successful in their early years, so you don't hear much about these questionable moves.

 

[SoggyBottomBoy]

It was a rainy, humid day and a muddy field. This would have been before the stadium had artificial turf.

Okay. I never knew Tulane stadium ever had artificial turf.

Great thead, btw, Cuozzo. Look forward to more of these.

 

[saints6759]

so no chin strap, kicker bar, looks like no shoulder pads... I don't think Brees would be playing as confident as he does in the same situation...

This should be factored in to the "best Saints QB" argument me thinks...

I was at the game. My dad took us and it was great. Nothing like Tulane stadium. The beer vendors had half kegs strapped to their backs and poured the beer right there at your seat. Wooden bench seats. Watch for splinters. Hedges in the end zones. AHH the memories.

 

[SoggyBottomBoy]

I was at the game. My dad took us and it was great. Nothing like Tulane stadium. The beer vendors had half kegs strapped to their backs and poured the beer right there at your seat. Wooden bench seats. Watch for splinters. Hedges in the end zones. AHH the memories.

Remember those back-pack draft dispensers well. Was too young to partake, but thought it was very groovy, baby. Yeah!

 

[Saintman2884]

Cuozzo, You're right that the Colts under Robert Irsay had less success then the kind they'd experienced under Carroll Rosenbloom, but they had some chances to make some serious noise in the mid 70's under Marchibroda. Irsay got it right in picking Marchibroda as a HC, one of the few good decisions he made as Colts owner at first. Bert Jones, Raymond Chester, a damn good Sack Pack Defense, and a promising young assistant by the name of Bill Belichek. Yes, Belichek got his start on the mid 70's Colts team(he still considers Marchibroda one of his mentors he learned the most from). They got beat twice in the 2nd round by the Steelers two consecutive years, but my God Cuozzo find me one team that could beat the Steelers in the playoffs back then except Denver in 1977. Games like show why their considered a dynasty by most NFL historians because they won 4 SB's over a 6 year stretch in the 1970's.

But the 1977 Colts could have easily beaten Oakland in the "Ghost to the Post" Game. They were leading 31-28 with less then a minute left in the 4th quarter with the Raiders looking for a miracle, and they got just that when Dave Casper caught a pass thrown well over his head and where it was thrown initially not in his direction. A once in a lifetime catch one you probably saw happen in front of you on live television Cuozzo.


If Casper doesn't make that catch, there's a good chance that the Raiders lose and it doesn't go into Double OT either with Oakland winning. There haven't been too many Double OT playoff games Cuozzo in NFL history. 1971 Miami/KC is one of them, Oakland/Baltimore is another, the Browns/Jets game in the 86 playoffs is another, and more recently , the2003 Rams/Panthers 2nd round showoff was the last one to date.


FWIW, there are still some old time Jets fans that use expletives whenever they hear Mark Gastineau's name. His late hit on Bernie Kosar gave the Browns new life with about 4 minutes left in the game and led to Kosar throwing a 50 yard TD pass, which also led the Dawg Pound to put the Jets at a 3 and out, forcing them to punt it, the Browns catch it, Kosar leads them to 4 yd line, and with the last play of regulation Mark Moseley kicks it into OT 20-20, which stays that way until the 2nd overtime period where Moseley kicks it barely across the left goalpost for the win.


That Jets team was amazingly close to upsetting the #1 seed Cleveland Browns before blowing it in the last 5 minutes of the game. Loses like that can haunt teams and especially players forever.

 

[workhorse]

Very nice, bro. Great info!

 

[Cuozzo67]

Cuozzo, You're right that the Colts under Robert Irsay had less success then the kind they'd experienced under Carroll Rosenbloom, but they had some chances to make some serious noise in the mid 70's under Marchibroda. Irsay got it right in picking Marchibroda as a HC, one of the few good decisions he made as Colts owner at first. Bert Jones, Raymond Chester, a damn good Sack Pack Defense, and a promising young assistant by the name of Bill Belichek. Yes, Belichek got his start on the mid 70's Colts team(he still considers Marchibroda one of his mentors he learned the most from). They got beat twice in the 2nd round by the Steelers two consecutive years, but my God Cuozzo find me one team that could beat the Steelers in the playoffs back then except Denver in 1977. Games like show why their considered a dynasty by most NFL historians because they won 4 SB's over a 6 year stretch in the 1970's.

But the 1977 Colts could have easily beaten Oakland in the "Ghost to the Post" Game. They were leading 31-28 with less then a minute left in the 4th quarter with the Raiders looking for a miracle, and they got just that when Dave Casper caught a pass thrown well over his head and where it was thrown initially not in his direction. A once in a lifetime catch one you probably saw happen in front of you on live television Cuozzo.


If Casper doesn't make that catch, there's a good chance that the Raiders lose and it doesn't go into Double OT either with Oakland winning. There haven't been too many Double OT playoff games Cuozzo in NFL history. 1971 Miami/KC is one of them, Oakland/Baltimore is another, the Browns/Jets game in the 86 playoffs is another, and more recently , the2003 Rams/Panthers 2nd round showoff was the last one to date.


FWIW, there are still some old time Jets fans that use expletives whenever they hear Mark Gastineau's name. His late hit on Bernie Kosar gave the Browns new life with about 4 minutes left in the game and led to Kosar throwing a 50 yard TD pass, which also led the Dawg Pound to put the Jets at a 3 and out, forcing them to punt it, the Browns catch it, Kosar leads them to 4 yd line, and with the last play of regulation Mark Moseley kicks it into OT 20-20, which stays that way until the 2nd overtime period where Moseley kicks it barely across the left goalpost for the win.


That Jets team was amazingly close to upsetting the #1 seed Cleveland Browns before blowing it in the last 5 minutes of the game. Loses like that can haunt teams and especially players forever.

The Colts did make an amazing turnaround under Marchibroda, who was another coach who worked under George Allen. They went from 2-12 (1974) to 10-4 (1975). They had identical records in 1976 and 1977. Joe Thomas had put together a very talented DL in Baltimore (Cook, Dutton, Barnes) and that covered up for weaknesses in the LBs and DBs. They had the misfortune of playing Pittsburgh in 1975 and 1976, and then the Christmas Eve loss to the Raiders. I'm sure that had to have been a heartbreaking loss. The Raiders played at their best against the Colts, then went to Denver and got beat in the AFC Championship game the following week (Craig Morton to Haven Moses). Back to the Colts, Jones hurt his shoulder the following year, and the team went into a decline from which it never recovered. Draft picks like Ken Novak, Reese McCall, Barry Krauss, and Art Schlichter didn't help.

I remember that 1986 playoff game you're talking about in Cleveland. I thought the Jets had the game won. I was rooting for them mainly because Derland Moore, an ex-Saint, had been picked up the Jets in mid-season. I think it was Pat Ryan (not Ken O'Brien?) who quarterbacked the team that day? The Jets announcer, Charlie Stein, even proclaimed that the Jets had won the game (kiss of death). The Browns had an ex-LSU receiver/runner named Herman Fontenot, who I think made a big play in the Browns comeback.

Regarding George Allen, he never won a Super Bowl and he was really a quirky character ... but he was one of my favorite old school coaches. I actually liked Tom Landry, too. Landry, Paul Brown, Bill Walsh, George Allen all had many of their assistants go on to coach successfully in the NFL. Lombardi's assistants, however, never really had any success (Fears, Hecker, Austin, Bengston). I'm convinced Fears got the Saints job because of his ties to Lombardi. Dick Nolan or Tommy Prothro would have better choices, but that's hindsight. Just like Belichick's assistants are in high demand today, it was the same for Lombardi's in the 1960's.