Saints counting on Sophomore Surge.... (1 Viewer)

[Eman5805]

I remember when the Saints signed a DE from the Rams, and had the vision that that player could become their MLB... that player was Charlie Clemons. Remember him? If not, it’s because he didn’t work out.

If you don’t know history, you’re doomed to repeat it.

Both Baun and Ruiz (especially Ruiz) are starting to feel like bad picks IMHO.

Starting? It's been one season, dude. A truncated one. You don't need to rush into judgements. Do we want more from them? Of course we do. But bad picks isn't even an inkling for me right now.

 

[mtq79]

Is this an admission of guilt? I never understood the Ruiz logic, move a high-performing center. Who were the other players we liked who were available? It almost sounds like Peat 2.0.

Patrick Queen is the name that a lot of people were hoping for. Antoine Winfield Jr went 45. Other receivers and backs went as well but not sure we were looking at those positions.

 

[Saint Taysom]

Is this an admission of guilt? I never understood the Ruiz logic, move a high-performing center. Who were the other players we liked who were available? It almost sounds like Peat 2.0.

Sounds almost like a “panic button” move after they realized Warford was washed...

Patrick Queen is the name that a lot of people were hoping for. Antoine Winfield Jr went 45. Other receivers and backs went as well but not sure we were looking at those positions.

I wanted Brandon Aiyuk because I knew Emmanuel Sanders was basically a 1-year YOLO signing.

 

[saint_drago]

Why not just a draft a middle linebacker and envision him as a potential middle linebacker of the future? Why do they make the position so complicated? At Wisconsin Baun was at his best off the edge. He was hell on earth coming off the edge. Looked like a natural fit for OLB in a 3-4 so naturally the Saints draft him to be a MLB in 4-3.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

Baun needs to play EDGE. Look at his college highlights. He has the bend and speed to rush the passer. They won’t do it though because they are so focused on Davenport and of course Cam has the LE spot. Cam needs to move inside. And rush Baun off the edge on most downs. This team doesn’t really like lighter edge rushers though. Baun will be just as good as any rookie you draft at 28 unless Jaelan Phillips drops. If they pull these moves with Baun and Jordan it frees up so much in the draft.

I don’t like Baun at MLB because he’s not that good in coverage.

nah the problem with Baun is he did all of those things around 230lbs in college. He ain’t have enough arse n mass to do that to grown men in the pro’s.

He was allowed passrush snaps, they weren’t pretty.

He’s got the range of a MLB and also the smarts to play it...just not the experience. That’s why he was always a project. The best way to get rush value from him is as a blitzer but he’s not explosive enough to win vsTackles snap in and out.

The player he’s been compared to in Haason Reddick is misleading because Reddick tested REALLY well at the combine especially in lower body explosion(vert/broad= better 40)

4.52 - 40
11’1 - Broad
36.5 - Vert
7.01 - 3cone
4.37 - Shuttle
Bench - 24

Compared to Baun

4.65
9’5
32.5
7
4.31
24

Now where Baun did perform better is his agility as he has really good feet and that’s what lends him well to MLB along with his awareness and smarts.

He’s simply not an edge guy but is a legit threat as a blitzer.

 

[meily]

I remember when the Saints signed a DE from the Rams, and had the vision that that player could become their MLB... that player was Charlie Clemons. Remember him? If not, it’s because he didn’t work out.

If you don’t know history, you’re doomed to repeat it.

Both Baun and Ruiz (especially Ruiz) are starting to feel like bad picks IMHO.

I Believe that player was Charlie Clemens, he had a pretty good season or two but I distinctly remember his 10-12 sack season were he got pressure as a MLB but also used as a rush end and got pressure, he was a 6-1 250lb player.

I have not heard Payton or anyway say they projected Baun as Mike but they tried and failed with Anzalone there also but I think the way they envision the Mike Linebacker is a player who can roam the field with the protection of the defensive line so the more athletic linebacker will get that call but I do agree that Baun never played that position so to read that's where he is projected does raise questions.

 

[SigFreudianSlip]

I’m excited about Trautman, worried about Baun and Ruiz.

 

[B_doggman47]

Why not just a draft a middle linebacker and envision him as a potential middle linebacker of the future? Why do they make the position so complicated? At Wisconsin Baun was at his best off the edge. He was hell on earth coming off the edge. Looked like a natural fit for OLB in a 3-4 so naturally the Saints draft him to be a MLB in 4-3.

That is exactly what I said in another thread. Why do we draft a player at one position and then switch him to a different position and then after a couple seasons release him because he is a bust at that position. Just because they project and envision that player in a different position that he's never played, doesn't necessarily mean that they are right in assuming so. Just draft the player at the position that he originally plays.

 

[saint_drago]

That is exactly what I said in another thread. Why do we draft a player at one position and then switch him to a different position and then after a couple seasons release him because he is a bust at that position. Just because they project and envision that player in a different position that he's never played, doesn't necessarily mean that they are right in assuming so. Just draft the player at the position that he originally plays.

Total agreement. And here's the thing, the draft is hard enough as it is. It's really difficult to predict how good a player is going to be in the NFL. There are so many variables on the field and off. But it shouldn't be this hard to draft a good LBer.

What are they looking for out of a LB? When you look at their draft history at the position there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason. They seem to prefer athletic projects with injury concerns.

 

[nakadish]

Total agreement. And here's the thing, the draft is hard enough as it is. It's really difficult to predict how good a player is going to be in the NFL. There are so many variables on the field and off. But it shouldn't be this hard to draft a good LBer.

What are they looking for out of a LB? When you look at their draft history at the position there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason. They seem to prefer athletic projects with injury concerns.

Didn't the Saints trade up to get Baun? Maybe they traded up expected someone else to be there and got caught with their pants down?

 

[No2DC]

Total agreement. And here's the thing, the draft is hard enough as it is. It's really difficult to predict how good a player is going to be in the NFL. There are so many variables on the field and off. But it shouldn't be this hard to draft a good LBer.

What are they looking for out of a LB? When you look at their draft history at the position there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason. They seem to prefer athletic projects with injury concerns.

That guy always seems out of reach in the 1st (top 15), so we usually go with the next guy who is a project. Now that I think about it, are Ram and Latt our best 1st round picks in recent years?

 

[saint_drago]

That guy always seems out of reach in the 1st (top 15), so we usually go with the next guy who is a project. Now that I think about it, are Ram and Latt our best 1st round picks in recent years?

Without question. Those are two of the three best first round picks under SP. And to think, we were this close to drafting Reuben Foster. The exact kind of LBer we're talking about now and have been wanting for years. We ended up with the best Right Tackle in football and Foster was out of the league two years later. The 49ers saved the Saints from themselves big time.

 

[Whodat GT]

Because he didn’t have the training camp and off-season to learn to call all the plays and protection. This year has always been where they flip them to Ruiz being center

I agree. When I read up about Ruiz, it seemed that he was an even better prospect at center than McCoy, that's why it's debatable to think that McCoy will keep the starting center role.

 

[BreesHOF2024]

For how good the 2016 and 2017 drafts were, we get the 2018 and 2020 drafts that are absolutely terrible. Turns out trading first rounders for project players (would have been nice to have Lamar Jackson and keep our first rounder, huh) and drafting players to play them out of position are terrible ideas. Better learn from these mistakes and not draft an undersized 1st round guard (who freaking does that) or a speed edge rusher to fill gaps, pursue angles and cover as a MLB (like.. gd).

Stop ruining these kids careers and draft for the positions we need.

 

[Goatman Saint]

For how good the 2016 and 2017 drafts were, we get the 2018 and 2020 drafts that are absolutely terrible. Turns out trading first rounders for project players (would have been nice to have Lamar Jackson and keep our first rounder, huh) and drafting players to play them out of position are terrible ideas. Better learn from these mistakes and not draft an undersized 1st round guard (who freaking does that) or a speed edge rusher to fill gaps, pursue angles and cover as a MLB (like.. gd).

Stop ruining these kids careers and draft for the positions we need.

This right here is the reason some people just shake their heads. The 2020 draft class never had a real offseason, training camp or preseason. They never had a chance to work into the system, learn the calls and plays. So they did the best they could. Ruiz played guard, a position that is the easiest to step into on the line. He’s not a tackle, and the amount of knowledge needed at the center position is huge and needs time to learn. As far as the rest of the picks it’s the same story. Remember, a LB that doesn’t know the system and responsibility that is needed will be a massive liability.
Now on to Davenport. He has been injured. And yes the Saints are training him to be an all around DE. If he was on the line to rush every play, he could be run out of the play or the RB would exploit the massive holes he left open. It’s the NFL. Physical talent only gets you so far. Gotta know the system also. Massive talent alone will just be a liability. Use that talent in the system and you go all pro.
so really, leave the simplistic madden/best player in shorts comments behind