Article Saints Film Room: Marcus Davenport is playing a lot better than you think (1 Viewer)

I’m not an expert. I don’t have the time or desire to watch every training camp, preseason, and regular season snap of Davenport. From my limited perspective, he doesn’t look as good this season as last. So, no I don’t like trajectory. It was pretty clear when Jordan was entering his second season that he was going to take a step forward. I’ve never had that feeling about Davenport.

The guy is talented and he plays hard on the field, but I can’t help agreeing with Pete that Davenport needs to become a professional and take the offseason seriously like his job depends on it.

The play presented in the OP gives me little reassurance that what my eyes have told me is wrong. He needs to start winning one-on-one battles and do more than get in the way of people.

Doesn't that seem like a bit of an overreaction though (not trying to sound insulting)? It was one game, and not even a bad one (worst case scenario). He was also asked to play differently for that one game (due to injuries/suspensions).

I don't see why that should be enough to "not like" the trajectory he has been on.
 
What I like about Rev Deuce are 1) His attention to detail to see important actions onfield that having not played football I miss. 2) Then he explains what I am actually seeing with pictures and language I can understand. The Athletic is elite and they picked Rev Deuce.

Coach Pete, being old school, used to give me grief about Rev Deuce articles I'd show him saying, "Good substance and good analysis, but I just can't get over that brimmed cap he is wearing!" - lmao. Now that I have a pic of Rev Deuce dressed up, Coach Pete wants me to print his articles and bring them to him. He really enjoys reading Rev Deuce's articles. And from what I understand, if a sport writer writes negative against as player, that writer will have a hard time gaining access to other players for more material. It sounds like a tough line.
 
I’m not an expert. I don’t have the time or desire to watch every training camp, preseason, and regular season snap of Davenport. From my limited perspective, he doesn’t look as good this season as last. So, no I don’t like trajectory. It was pretty clear when Jordan was entering his second season that he was going to take a step forward. I’ve never had that feeling about Davenport.

The guy is talented and he plays hard on the field, but I can’t help agreeing with Pete that Davenport needs to become a professional and take the offseason seriously like his job depends on it.

The play presented in the OP gives me little reassurance that what my eyes have told me is wrong. He needs to start winning one-on-one battles and do more than get in the way of people.
Well, here's another thing to help your perspective. When Cameron Jordan started his second season, he was by far the best defensive lineman on the Saints roster. This defensive line has improved by light years from the one which gave the most yardage in nfl history. So you are comparing one guy who came into a defense where every other player on his team was under threat of a year's suspension & couldn't play hard to a guy who came into a competitive situation & is only making it stronger by his presence.
 
Doesn't that seem like a bit of an overreaction though (not trying to sound insulting)? It was one game, and not even a bad one (worst case scenario). He was also asked to play differently for that one game (due to injuries/suspensions).

I don't see why that should be enough to "not like" the trajectory he has been on.

I’m not referring specifically to the game...it was training camp, preseason, and the first game. I’m not saying that the guy is doomed and it was a wasted pick...I’m just saying that I need to see more. Deuces, God love him, didn’t nudge my skepticism one way or the other. Just my honest opinion.
 
I’m not referring specifically to the game...it was training camp, preseason, and the first game. I’m not saying that the guy is doomed and it was a wasted pick...I’m just saying that I need to see more. Deuces, God love him, didn’t nudge my skepticism one way or the other. Just my honest opinion.
Hey, I think you have a point. I want to see more as well. I think I could speak for all of us wanting to see more. But the point of some folks is he's doing a quality job right now, & we are going to see more. I think we will see a LOT more & when we do, we will all love what we see & will have a laugh over this thread as well as the Pete thread going what were we worried about?

How many people just pounded on Hendrickson last season & look at him now? The media was saying he was on the bubble & the bubble was going to bust right under him. Obviously he didn't see it that way. And the coaches didn't see it that way.
 
Hey, I think you have a point. I want to see more as well. I think I could speak for all of us wanting to see more. But the point of some folks is he's doing a quality job right now, & we are going to see more. I think we will see a LOT more & when we do, we will all love what we see & will have a laugh over this thread as well as the Pete thread going what were we worried about?

How many people just pounded on Hendrickson last season & look at him now? The media was saying he was on the bubble & the bubble was going to bust right under him. Obviously he didn't see it that way. And the coaches didn't see it that way.
I have never saw that way with Hendrickson. He was never given a true opportunity due to his rookie year with injuries and being caught up in the number game last season
 
I have never saw that way with Hendrickson. He was never given a true opportunity due to his rookie year with injuries and being caught up in the number game last season
Well, Hendrickson has obviously worked his tail off & has gotten bigger, stronger, & hasn't lost an ounce of quickness in the process. And he is getting opportunities. And I like him having the opportunity to come into the game fresh & able to throw hay makers in the 4th qtr. withthe game on the line instead of being worn out & not quite being able to get there. Does anyone on this board think Jarod Goff is as fast & elusive as Deshaun Watson? Does anyone realize just how special what we witnessed the other night was?
The only reason Houston was able to do what they did was the incredible athleticism of a couple of incredible football players who played at the very tippy top of their game. That won't happen this week in LA. So unless they can dominate us for four quarters we will win that game. And BOTH Hendrickson & Davenport will play a huge role in that win.
 
A ton to unpack here, and some good conversation, keep it going everyone!

I see what you’re saying but there was nothing unique about Davenport on that play. It’s more of a credit to the scheme than Davenports actual play. Hendrickson would have likely done the same exact thing with the same result.

I’d prefer to see Davenport beat the man in front of him. That is what you hope to get when you draft a 1st rounder...someone who can make their own plays.

It's definitely a scheme draw up, but, Hendrickson isn't pulling it off with the same level of success. There's a reason Dav is the one running it. T-Rex just doesn't have the raw force to drive upfield through G/T. He wins in other ways. He's done a good job of working on his run stopping, stack/shed and snap jumping to go with his natural athletic ability.

Pete’s narrative works because it fits what we see with our eyes. Deuce’s position is tough because he’s trying to convince us that our eyes are lying to us. Deuce has a lot of respect on this forum for a good reason but even with his level of respect it’s a tough sell.

My issue with Pete's narrative, and I have no problem with Coach Pete, is I've never heard it before. Not from any players, coaches or people working in the facility that I talk to. So, maybe it's true, but I haven't heard it from anyone. I'm not disagreeing with it but I can't consider it because I can't confirm it. It's an unknown variable.

When it comes to Davenport, its always about expectations. From the get-go I made it clear I saw Davenport as a player who wouldn't really "show up" until Year 2-Year 3 in a massive stat way. He was always going to be a high developmental players which is why I had a 3rd round grade on him. That said, this is an evaluation vs valuation situation. As a scout, you're trained to evaluate. You let the coaches/GM determine the end valuation. Myself, and the Saints, (and everyone else) all saw the exact same things coming in.

What I like about Rev Deuce are 1) His attention to detail to see important actions onfield that having not played football I miss. 2) Then he explains what I am actually seeing with pictures and language I can understand. The Athletic is elite and they picked Rev Deuce.

Coach Pete, being old school, used to give me grief about Rev Deuce articles I'd show him saying, "Good substance and good analysis, but I just can't get over that brimmed cap he is wearing!" - lmao. Now that I have a pic of Rev Deuce dressed up, Coach Pete wants me to print his articles and bring them to him. He really enjoys reading Rev Deuce's articles. And from what I understand, if a sport writer writes negative against as player, that writer will have a hard time gaining access to other players for more material. It sounds like a tough line.

My articles don't preclude me from any access, as that's not really my niche' anyway. Players I interview/work with tend to be ones I've build some form of relationship with and not ones I try to interview in the lockerroom after games. That's Katherine's job.

Everyone here has individual expectations for what they want/think Davenport should be doing. Ultimately, he only needs to keep the coaches happy. They're happy (for the most part) with Week 1 from him, though there's obviously things he needs to clean up.
 
A ton to unpack here, and some good conversation, keep it going everyone!



It's definitely a scheme draw up, but, Hendrickson isn't pulling it off with the same level of success. There's a reason Dav is the one running it. T-Rex just doesn't have the raw force to drive upfield through G/T. He wins in other ways. He's done a good job of working on his run stopping, stack/shed and snap jumping to go with his natural athletic ability.



My issue with Pete's narrative, and I have no problem with Coach Pete, is I've never heard it before. Not from any players, coaches or people working in the facility that I talk to. So, maybe it's true, but I haven't heard it from anyone. I'm not disagreeing with it but I can't consider it because I can't confirm it. It's an unknown variable.

When it comes to Davenport, its always about expectations. From the get-go I made it clear I saw Davenport as a player who wouldn't really "show up" until Year 2-Year 3 in a massive stat way. He was always going to be a high developmental players which is why I had a 3rd round grade on him. That said, this is an evaluation vs valuation situation. As a scout, you're trained to evaluate. You let the coaches/GM determine the end valuation. Myself, and the Saints, (and everyone else) all saw the exact same things coming in.



My articles don't preclude me from any access, as that's not really my niche' anyway. Players I interview/work with tend to be ones I've build some form of relationship with and not ones I try to interview in the lockerroom after games. That's Katherine's job.

Hey Rev Deuce! For many of us at SR, it's a thrill to see one of our own, you, become a major success at an elite analyst firm. Just great stuff Rev and we are so darned proud of you. You give us so much knowledge and insights. Thx again.

I am 90% certain that Coach Pete is getting his info on this from the former coaches under him who are now at UTSA. How reliable is that??? IDK. I can promise you one thing. If I were standing right infront of Marcus, I'm not going to tell him, "You look fat in the face!" -lol.
 
Hey Rev Deuce! For many of us at SR, it's a thrill to see one of our own, you, become a major success at an elite analyst firm. Just great stuff Rev and we are so darned proud of you. You give us so much knowledge and insights. Thx again.

I am 90% certain that Coach Pete is getting his info on this from the former coaches under him who are now at UTSA. How reliable is that??? IDK. I can promise you one thing. If I were standing right infront of Marcus, I'm not going to tell him, "You look fat in the face!" -lol.

Players often keep in contact with their former collegiate coaches/friends (and vice versa), so those sources can be pretty good. My only rebuttal is I'd figure by now I would have heard this swirling around the facility as a bad thing as well. Wouldn't be the first time things have been kept hush-hush though. He doesn't look to be in worse shape now than I remember him last year, but I admittedly wasn't out there checking the depths of his ab muscles either. lol

He has put on a few pounds since UTSA, but thats expected coming to the NFL level. Especially with them trying to transition him more and more to a 3 pt. stance (something thats still very much a work in progress, and, I talk about in the article)
 
Don’t get me wrong...I’m still happy we have the guy as a rotational DE. He’s still better than our #4 DE. But people are trying so hard to prop him up. When you have to try that hard...it’s pretty telling that he’s been a disappointment. But the guy is young, can very well not be in the best condition...perhaps he’ll figure it out and be a productive pro.

I won’t speak for others but name the long list of great DE’s that light it up in their first year as DE. It should be easy if it’s normal for DE’s to show how great they are early on.


While you do that here’s some first year sack number for some of the greats.

Davenport had 4.5 sacks year one in limited time.


Cam Jordan - (1)
Michael Stragan - (1)
Rickey Jackson - (4.5)
Bruce Smith - (6.5)
JJ Watt - (5.5)

These are HOF players.

I could keep going but I think the point is proven that you can’t judge a DE on their rookie year and expect to know how great they could wind up.

Why we, as fans of the Saints, are trying to pigeonhole this guy is beyond me.
 
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I think Davenport will continue to improve, but as we all knew when drafting him, he was very raw. He looks like a beast, physically, and he showed great flashes during his rookie year with sheer athleticism. I admit that I wish his development would speed up, but that’s just not how it works.

I think when the light bulb really turns on for him, which may be next year or the following year, he will be an absolute monster. For now, I just look for continuous improvement and solid play.
 
Good analysis. Thanks for posting. Even in the gameday thread and the "Third Round vs. Two Firsts" thread I was pointing out to people that even from the terrace, you could see MD wreaking havoc and moving Watson off his spot all night long. He'll get his. He played a great game against Houston. Just because it doesn't show up in the stat line doesn't mean he wasn't making life miserable for their OL.


Sacks aren't everything

Tbh a lot of the times pressure are a better indication of how successful the rush is getting to a QB.

You dont ever get a lucky pressure. There are lucky sacks all the time
 
Been on this forum for many years and two of the guys on this thread throwing low key shade at Rev are no where close to where he is when it comes to evaluating what’s going on.

As far as this “coach Pete” goes I’ll take the opinion of Rev over some dudes “alter ego” who’s been as consistently wrong as the other hyper-opinionated “experts” on this post.
 
A ton to unpack here, and some good conversation, keep it going everyone!

@RevDeuceWindham

The below Next Gen stat chart for Defensive Pass Rush shows Davenport was below average last game in "Average Separation from QB".

Does this stat mean anything useful in your opinion? Just curious as I've never seen this stat before.

Screenshot_20190914-212800.png
 

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