Saint's Interested in Balmer? (1 Viewer)

[REALCHRISM]

I am not excited about Balmer. I have watched this guy play and he certainly lacks the explosion you see from guys like Ellis and Dorsey. He seem to always be moving half a second slower and the few big plays he has made has come off coverage sacks. He seems to be a better fit for a 3-4, although he can play in the 4-3 as well. He kind of reminds me, believe it or not, of a guy we already have on the roster--Antwan Lake. At this point, I just cannot see Balmer solving our pass rush problems on the inside. We have to find a way to get either Dorsey or Ellis.

 

[Scott B]

God forbid the Saints practice due diligence in scouting the available talent in this year's draft.

 

[cruize]

He did well in the bench press. He's not completely lazy. But, for every DT to be judged by Sullivan being a bust is wrong. He didn't have any coaching and had G. Jackson as a mentor. The guy may turn out to be better than Ellis or Dorsey. I personally had rather have CB Talib with the top pick though.

 

[REALCHRISM]

Good post, canuck.lus-un2: 95% of the board including myself hasn't seen the guy play so its pretty unfair to bury him just yet.

I have seen him play. Here's the similarity between Kevin Williams and Balmer. Williams was considered as a DE prospect just as much as he was being considered as a DT. Some thought his best position might be at end and even the Vikings started him at end as a rookie. It was not until the final four games of his rookie year that he played inside and showed that he could do it. The difference is that Williams was a very outstanding pass rusher at Oklahoma State and he had 18.5 sacks in 42 games. Balmer only had 6 in the same amount of games. While the knock on Williams was that he did not have much bulk, he did play with excellent leverage. Balmer does not play with great leverage and can be slow to react to what's going on--basically what I meant by he always look like he's moving a half a step or two slower. Kevin Williams shows that he can get off blocks, which has allowed him to play well inside the 4-3 as a DT. Balmer has not, to this point, that he is able to do the same and could struggle as a 3-tech, which is likely where he would play, in our defense.

bop, I see where you are going with your post and it's admirable. But NFL Draft Countdown, while definitely reputable, is not only the only draft source. Wright does a solid job but there were other reputable draft reports that had Williams as high as #3. I remember Pro Football Weekly had him #3 behind Robertson and Kennedy and well ahead of Sullivan was who ranked 5th. By the way, the thing about Sullivan is that he had the talent. The Saints really did not miss in drafting a guy who should have been very solid in the pros. The problem was Sullivan, himself, who just grew lazy. I do think Haslett was culpable in some of that. But I can remember when Sullivan first came to town. He never seem to fit in with the Saints. He admitted being shocked that we took him and that he had grown up an Atlanta Falcons fan. I guess if the Saints can be accused of missing on Sullivan, it was not based on what he did on film. It was based on not interviewing or using his interview as a true measurement of where this guy's head and passion for the game might be. One last thought on Sullivan. I liked Sullivan a lot coming out and tried to support even when he was not doing so well. But one thing that raised a red flag to me was when Sullivan worked out before the draft. He ran a 40 time of something like 4.9. There were some scouts there who felt that he was acting lazy going through the drills and looked like he had been training for that day. There were scouts who said that he dropped down on their list for that very reason. So, you must examine the entire body of work, interview and watch for any signs that a guy might be either ready for or passionless about the game. Sorry for the tangent but I thought the Sullivan screw-up needed some more context.

 

[Saint Droopy]

Balmer = BEAST

Hey just wait until the name is called at #10 before we all go nuts. Remember... NOTHING that is said at this time of year is to be taken seriously... they lie so much this time of year. I'll just sit back and wait til the draft before I lose sleep over a player that they're "interested" in.

 

[REALCHRISM]

Balmer = BEAST

Hey just wait until the name is called at #10 before we all go nuts. Remember... NOTHING that is said at this time of year is to be taken seriously... they lie so much this time of year. I'll just sit back and wait til the draft before I lose sleep over a player that they're "interested" in.

I totally agree and I think Scott B is right when he intimates that the Saints should do their due diligence. My point is, from my trajectory, I do not see Balmer as a good fit or a guy, we as fans, should get too excited about.

Also, checking out Balmer could be important because it is believed that Carolina might consider him at #13 with a host of other guys. I think it would be good to know what type of a player a rival may be getting and have some info on him without having to do it the Bellicheat way.

 

[saintfan-n-alex]

i noticed this weekend Kiper has us taking him -

 

[Ti Rider]

That's understandable, but a good player is a good player and needs are needs. Besides, you can't put too much stock into rankings; it's what they do at the next level that counts. Let's look at a recent history of DT rankings (final rankings of www.nfldraftcountdown.com). I didn't include 2006 or 2007 drafts because the jury's still out on them, but look at 2001-2005. Solid players in bold.

2005:

1. Travis Johnson Florida St. (16, Houston)
2. Shaun Cody USC (37, Detroit)
3. Luis Castillo Northwestern (28 San Diego)
4. Mike Patterson USC (31 Philly)

2004:

1. Tommie Harris, Oklahoma (14, Chicago)
2. Vince Wilfork, Miami (FL) (21, New England)
3. Randy Starks, Maryland (71 Tennessee)
4. Marcus Tubbs, Texas (23, Seattle)
5. Igor Olshansky, Oregon (35, San Diego)
6. Donnell Washington, Clemson (72, Green Bay)
7. Darnell Dockett, Florida St. (64, Arizona)

10. Terry Johnson, Washington (47, Chicago)

22. Corey Williams, Arkansas St. (179, Green Bay)

2003:

1. Dewayne Robertson, Kentucky (4, NYJ)
2. Jimmy Kennedy, Penn St. (12, St. Louis)
3. William Joseph, Miami (FL) (25, NYG)
4. Johnathan Sullivan, Georgia (You know who.)
5. Kevin Williams, Oklahoma St. (9, Minnesota)

2002:

1. John Henderson, Tennessee (9, Jacksonville)
2. Albert Haynesworth, Tennessee (15, Tennessee)
3. Wendell Bryant, Wisconsin (12, Arizona)
4. Ryan Sims, North Carolina (6, KC)

2001:

1. Gerard Warren, Florida (3, Cleveland)
2. Richard Seymour, Georgia (6, NE)
3. Damoine Lewis, Miami (FL) (12, St. Louis)
4. Willie Howard, Stanford (57, Minnesota)
5. Marcus Stroud, Georgia (13 Jacksonville)
6. Shaun Rogers, Texas (61, Detroit)
7. Tyrone Robertson, Hinds J.C. (238, Buffalo)
8. Ryan Pickett, Ohio St. (29, St. Louis)
9. Casey Hampton, Texas (19, Pittsburgh)

Mike Patterson was the 4th-ranked DT in 2005, yet he has emerged as better than Travis Johnson or Shaun Cody. Luis Castillo's tough to evaluate, as he plays end in a 3-4.

Darnell Dockett was the 7th ranked DT in 2004.

Kevin Williams was the 5th ranked DT in 2003; behind Jonathan Sullivan.

2002 was pretty straightforward; makes you wonder what the Chiefs were thinking with Sims at 6. The Cards taking Bryant at #12? Well, they ARE the Cards. Look at 2001: The Steelers thought differently from the consensus and got themselves an all-pro.

It's everywhere: Nnamdi Asomugha was the 9th-ranked CB in 2003 and all he's done is emerge as the one who could challenge Champ Bailey as the best CB in the whole league. (Also, Charles Tillman was ranked 11th.)

Who's to say Balmer won't be a solid player? He's a good athlete; his a tall, rangy athlete who might free up the pass-rush better than the others could. Since most of the people who are dissing Balmer have never even seen a North Carolina game, I'll hold off on drinking the Hatorade and trust the people watching the tape, conducting interviews and maybe, just maybe, learned a lesson of what NOT to look for, after the Sully debacle.

Great post, well researched. Like everybody else I read "Saints interested in Balmer" and immediately flashed back to Sullivan. There are a few similarities - the obvious both are DTs and the fact both would be considered a "reach" where they were drafted (or would be drafted in Balmer's case). But as canuckredux post brillantly points out DT is just as hit or miss (maybe moreso) as every other position in the draft. At this point we have to trust new DL coach - Ed Orgeron and the scouting staff (Don't give me these guys also scouted Sullivan so they suck. That was five years ago. Do you know all the Saints scouts?).

 

[meily]

i'm all for the pick, Balmer, Ellis, Dorsey, Laws, Harrison, they can all help, I know you guys think want who you want, but we cant control that, I just want them to get the players at the positions that need a shot of youth, Balmer is 6'4 300+pds, he can be a Kevin Williams type player for us, or he could be a William Joseph for us, we wont know, but you can say the same for Ellis and Dorsey, nobody is a lock and if he is being touted as the 3rd best DT then why are people arguing with the choice?...i'm all for getting positions filled, i'm not really falling inlove with any one player, I like whoever the Saints like.....but I do understand why some people would think its a bad choice.

 

[morals99]

Honestly I don't know much about the kid....however from all the player rankings and mock drafts i'd rather go another route @ #10. I feel he's in the 15-20 range. If our coaching staff is sold on DT...then they should trade up for one of the elite 2.

 

[Conrad]

Balmer credits the coaching staff at UNC for kick starting his game. Coaching is a huge thing for many positions such as DT and OT.

I would be excited to get a guy like Balmer, with his size/speed/strength on the team with a guy like Ed Ogeron coaching him.

 

[SaintTiger]

I think I just threw up! It's just my opinion and don't mean to be rude, but I hate the idea of Balmer. I must admit that as soon as the college season was over and we all looked to the draft something told me that Balmer would be our pick with Dorsey and Ellis off the board by pick 10. I would love to be wrong on this one.............please make me wrong!!!

 

[d3vanj]

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[Scott B]

I totally agree and I think Scott B is right when he intimates that the Saints should do their due diligence. My point is, from my trajectory, I do not see Balmer as a good fit or a guy, we as fans, should get too excited about.

Also, checking out Balmer could be important because it is believed that Carolina might consider him at #13 with a host of other guys. I think it would be good to know what type of a player a rival may be getting and have some info on him without having to do it the Bellicheat way.

it all boils down to BPA vs. reaching for a need. If Balmer is the best player available when the Saints pick, then great. But if he's not, this is the perfect example of why teams get in trouble reaching for need opposed to drafting BPA. I don't know anything about the guy, but if the Saints have him in their top 10, I got to believe that he's going to be a good addition. Based on what little I've read about him, he seems to be better suited for the NT opposed to the 3-tech, which is still a need for the Saints considering Hollis Thomas is not the long term solution.

 

[syracuse saint]

Could you imagine the hoots and hollars in the audience if we did this? Boomer saying that this is a head scratcher and Kiper saying that we reached?

Please don't do this Saints! I don't want to have to search for an explanation to my friends who taunt me about this.