Saints players and other key sports and public figures are angry at Drew Brees for his anthem comments (1 Viewer)

[rajncajn]

I've done a lot of it. Germany wanted to keep the US out of the war and our tensions with Japan was at an all time high because we were aiding China in their conflict while basically placing sanctions on Japan. Pearl Harbor wasn't happenstance and if you think it was, I might not be the one who needs to go back and read up on WW2.

WW2 started in 1939. We joined in 1941. I don't think the US would not have been directly attacked by anyone if it wasn't for our intervention in the Japan-China conflict.

Any info on why we were aiding China in their conflict?

 

[BeerBaron]

Same way we’ve always survived.

Just with more fires, riots and social unrest, I guess.

the democrat way

 

[jahsoul357]

They bombed Pearl Harbor in order to destroy our Pacific naval fleet. Why? Because they wanted to invade and conquer our territories, like the Philippines, which they did 10 hours after Pearl Harbor. They rounded up American citizens- civilians- and put them in a prison camp... before we ever declared war on them.

And if Germany wanted to keep us out of the war, declaring war on us was a funny way of showing it. Especially after we let them sink our ships in the Atlantic repeatedly without declaring war on them.

How about WWI? Look up the Zimmerman telegram. To say we didn’t fight any wars in the 20th century to preserve our freedoms is ludicrous.

You mean the Zimmerman telegram that looked to be a failure before it started because Mexico felt that it was a crazy idea? LOL

And Japan cared nothing about our territories. If we were not intervening in the conflict, do you really believe that Japan would have any reason or cause to attack us, considering that many believe Pearl Harbor was used for "surveillance."

That being said, if you want to discuss this over PM, that's cool, as don't want to derail the current topic at hand.

 

[SystemShock]

Those are not “ newsworthy”

What does that mean? Not news worthy?

 

[Eman5805]

They are going to get past this. I'm sure Payton has already gotten on the phone and talked with some of his guys.

Tensions are HIGH. Higher than I've ever seen in my 32 years of life. I can only imagine what would've been said if Twitter existed during the days of Rodney King.

But there's a way to learn and grow from this. I trust we have mature enough men in the locker room who can work this out.

I just trust that Drew does know WHY they're kneeling. Not that he has to like the doing, but the reason behind it and stand with them.

As for people saying "he can't have an opinion?" Everyone jumping down Drew for his opinion...are sharing their own. They're just angrier about it. And a small percentage are those types that live to take down big figures. The Cancel Vultures I call them.

 

[Cincy Saint]

I don't doubt what you say about likelihood of interactions being higher, but you have to admit, there is often reason for that. Just take New Orleans murder stats as an example. Most killed by a large number are African Americans killed by African Americans. Crime lives in impoverished areas. IMHO, the bigger issue than race is socio-economic status. We need to work on income balance, and to a large extent, the imbalance is a result of political corruption. America has to wake up to what its politicians are doing, and the media has to also quit being corrupt in what and how they report what the politicians are doing. But at the same time, we can't live in victimhood and just blame gov't and corporations. We have to look at ourselves in the mirror and ask, "What can I do to make my situation better?" The answers may not be easy ones. They may require more education, and other long term sacrifice. But people of all races have opportunities now. Seize them if you can!

You raise many valid points. See the linked article for a discussion of those underlying causes -- redlining, wealth inequality, etc.

The one place I will disagree with you is where you say "But people of all races have opportunities now." Due to the factors we agree on, blacks still have disproportionately fewer opportunities and still have much higher hurdles to climb.

LINK:
Why black on black crime isn't a valid argument against criticizing police

 

[rajncajn]

Drew missed the boat when he said that the kneeling protest was "disrespecting the flag." A better response would have been to tell the story of his grandfathers and what that means to him and then say, "For that reason I cannot kneel during the National Anthem. However, I fully understand and respect that others' opinions and life experiences get a different image. I have been fortunate in my life and have not been exposed to their experiences. Because of that, while I will not take a knee myself, I will respect their exercise of their First Amendment rights, stand by them, and support any of their efforts to achieve the American experience that I have been blessed with in my life."

He cast their protest through his life experiences and no through theirs. I expected more empathy from him. I am disappointed in him. He does seem like a stand up guy. I hope that the conversations that he is having with his teammates makes him more understanding of other's experiences.

I missed this post earlier wading through all the muck. Glad a few quoted it because it's very well put rather than being inflammatory.

 

[fdl16]

If there was ever a teammate I'd hope he'd listen to....

 

[jahsoul357]

Any info on why we were aiding China in their conflict?

Like I mentioned to gavinj, we can talk more over PM so we don't derail the current conversation

 

[Cincy Saint]

Drew missed the boat when he said that the kneeling protest was "disrespecting the flag." A better response would have been to tell the story of his grandfathers and what that means to him and then say, "For that reason I cannot kneel during the National Anthem. However, I fully understand and respect that others' opinions and life experiences get a different image. I have been fortunate in my life and have not been exposed to their experiences. Because of that, while I will not take a knee myself, I will respect their exercise of their First Amendment rights, stand by them, and support any of their efforts to achieve the American experience that I have been blessed with in my life."

He cast their protest through his life experiences and no through theirs. I expected more empathy from him. I am disappointed in him. He does seem like a stand up guy. I hope that the conversations that he is having with his teammates makes him more understanding of other's experiences.

Another vote for your response. Drew could have said that and everyone would be happy.

 

[N.O.Bronco]

Here’s the thing I see with Drew Brees and this situation, and it is not something either unique or rare to him. It is in fact a quality that explains a lot of Americans.


There is instilled in many people, a personal and social identity that is the product of having in them a belief, often impressed from an early age, that tells them there are fewer things more virtuous than paying unyielding respect and adulation for certain institutions or groups. The most popular being the church, but, for a lot, a close second(even first) is the military and first responders(cops, firefighters, paramedics). And a simple axiom develops that is often reinforced within cultures instilled in them the same identity traits. More adulation makes you more virtuous, criticism or failure to signal properly indicates you are being disrespectful and less virtuous. This, of course, extends to what symbols and rituals you associate with those institutions. Like the American flag or the national anthem.


The obvious problem arises when others don’t observe or experience those institutions or symbols the way you do. An even greater problem arises when those groups/institutions you ascribe as overwhelmingly virtuous and just, commit extensive acts of injustice or are in fact themselves deeply corrupted and unjust.


And for many, when faced with that discrepency, or those being critical(even indirectly), their natural inclination becomes to rationalize away, deflect, blame shift, or outright attack the other. After all, what you are conditioned to do almost reflexively is praise these groups or institutions, and look poorly on those that fail to do so. So anything less than a strong defense signals your lack of virtue.


Those can be the seeds of patriotism, but they can also be the seeds of oppression or even authoritarianism. For if those institutions/groups for which unyielding praise is required and protest forever opposed, do in fact turn out to be unjust and oppressive, you’ve simply become a social enforcer for unjust acts, or worse, for maintaining an unjust system of oppression.


Drew Brees is wrong here. Wrong to demand others see his symbols the way he does, wrong to judge people for failing to do so, wrong for placing symbolic adulation to idols and idolized institutions above the concerns of those unjustly wronged by them. But more concerning is that people that get into that contradiction rarely know how to get out. Because to get out would require breaking from an identity structure and relationship that is core to their positive personal narrative, and what are we if we concede our personal narratives were morally wrong and ill conceived?

 

[Loco Hornet Fan]

5 people have liked this comment so far. I'm signing off for a bit. Wow,...just wow

I think you are missing the context and actual meaning of that post (it wasn’t literal).

 

[Innominate]

Any info on why we were aiding China in their conflict?

We were aiding China in the Pacific and Great Britain in the Atlantic. We didn't have the stomach to officially enter the war until 7 Dec.

 

[slikk]

No, it's a mildly sarcastic one.


Sure.


So, it seems that the point that is not clear to you, is that the slogan "Black Lives Matter" doesn't mean "only black lives matter" or that "black lives matter more". It means that black lives should matter just as much as white lives, because it seems, they are not.


Ok.

So, first of all, you may want to find a better source of information. But anyway, one would have to ask:
What violent crime did George Floyd commit?
What violent crime did Ahmaud Arbery commit, that gave the Georgia DA reason not to press charges against the two racist yahoos who hunted him down and killed him?

Yea and really race factor aside what those cop(s) did were just wrong and completely overboard. So that's for the person who wants to post and tweet numbers black vs white or whatever.Take race and color out of it the cop(s) were wrong and out of bounds and went way over the line the others stood and did nothing its still an wrong and unjust for the person who don't want to stay away from racial issue or the race card.

 

[Sandman]

Here’s the thing I see with Drew Brees and this situation, and it is not something either unique or rare to him. It is in fact a quality that explains a lot of Americans.


There is instilled in many people, a personal and social identity that is the product of having in them a belief, often impressed from an early age, that tells them there are fewer things more virtuous than paying unyielding respect and adulation for certain institutions or groups. The most popular being the church, but, for a lot, a close second(even first) is the military and first responders(cops, firefighters, paramedics). And a simple axiom develops that is often reinforced within cultures instilled in them the same identity traits. More adulation makes you more virtuous, criticism or failure to signal properly indicates you are being disrespectful and less virtuous. This, of course, extends to what symbols and rituals you associate with those institutions. Like the American flag or the national anthem.


The obvious problem arises when others don’t observe or experience those institutions or symbols the way you do. An even greater problem arises when those groups/institutions you ascribe as overwhelmingly virtuous and just, commit extensive acts of injustice or are in fact themselves deeply corrupted and unjust.


And for many, when faced with that discrepency, or those being critical(even indirectly), their natural inclination becomes to rationalize away, deflect, blame shift, or outright attack the other. After all, what you are conditioned to do almost reflexively is praise these groups or institutions, and look poorly on those that fail to do so. So anything less than a strong defense signals your lack of virtue.


Those can be the seeds of patriotism, but they can also be the seeds of oppression or even authoritarianism. For if those institutions/groups for which unyielding praise is required and protest forever opposed, do in fact turn out to be unjust and oppressive, you’ve simply become a social enforcer for unjust acts, or worse, for maintaining an unjust system of oppression.


Drew Brees is wrong here. Wrong to demand others see his symbols the way he does, wrong to judge people for failing to do so, wrong for placing symbolic adulation to idols and idolized institutions above the concerns of those unjustly wronged by them. But more concerning is that people that get into that contradiction rarely know how to get out. Because to get out would require breaking from an identity structure and relationship that is core to their positive personal narrative, and what are we if we concede our personal narratives were morally wrong and ill conceived?

Bravo.