Saints should go all in on Derek Carr (1 Viewer)

[jahsoul357]

As Dan pointed out, there was no answer when he was blitzed. I don’t know why that was. But the offense couldn’t function.

The offense functioned moderately better with Dalton.

Jameis was blitzed more times against Carolina but only took one sack but we will hear about a hot read more than what actually lost us that game..lol. Would things have been different if he was healthy? I believe so but we will never know. My fear is that Reich tries to sign him to the Panthers and he actually gets competent coaching.

Here is another crazy thing.
Dalton threw more first downs than Jameis did in the Panthers game once while throwing for less than Jameis did in the Bucs game 5 times (while equaling it 3 times). The illusion of the offense "functioning" was predicated on the run game.

As for the red zone, here is a great article from the end of the 2020 season by an Athletic writer who covers the Raiders. He broke down the Raiders issues in short yardage and red zone and pointed to the issues Gruden had with playcalling, and even did a deep dive into how the Saints did a better job.

It actually got worse with McDaniels...

 

[RJ in Lafayette]

He has a no-trade clause and can force Las Vegas to cut him loose in 10 days. He has already said he is not extending the bonus deadline. Were I Carr, absent exceptional circumstances, I would force Las Vegas to cut him, giving him complete control over where he goes. And I don't know what teams are interested in him, but again if I were Carr, I would be more interested in played with the Jets and perhaps even the Panthers, Tennessee, Indianapolis and Washington rather than the Saints.

 

[Snakehead]

He has a no-trade clause and can force Las Vegas to cut him loose in 10 days. He has already said he is not extending the bonus deadline. Were I Carr, absent exceptional circumstances, I would force Las Vegas to cut him, giving him complete control over where he goes. And I don't know what teams are interested in him, but again if I were Carr, I would be more interested in played with the Jets and perhaps even the Panthers, Tennessee, Indianapolis and Washington rather than the Saints.

Why? What puts the Jets, Panthers, Tennessee, Indy and Washington ahead of the Saints?

Carr can run the version of the offense we saw in the early SP years. A version closer to what PC called in 2012, but it won't be the exact same since that one had Brees. The piece that's missing is that big X possession WR which will get addressed this offseason.

None of those teams have a better path to the playoffs. Sure, Carolina is in the same division so their path is the same, but Carr at QB, address the X, RB, avoid a few injuries and the Saints are in the playoffs.

 

[Optimistic Ozzy]

It feels like a lot of people on SR want us to go all in with Carr because he is the best of the available QBs on the market, which he is. But outside of available QBs, I think we're talking about a top 15 QB in the league. Pass, save the money and picks.

Dennis Allen KNOWS he has to win this year. This won’t be a wait and see next year scenario. He wants Carr and a solid draft. With that he can easily take the division. That is, if we change our conservative offensive philosophy.

 

[jahsoul357]

Why? What puts the Jets, Panthers, Tennessee, Indy and Washington ahead of the Saints?

With the exception of Indy, coaching.

Carr can run the version of the offense we saw in the early SP years. A version closer to what PC called in 2012, but it won't be the exact same since that one had Brees. The piece that's missing is that big X possession WR which will get addressed this offseason.

So could Jameis but we rolled out the offense of a retiring Brees instead. I don't think they have it in them to implement an offense to a players strengths.

None of those teams have a better path to the playoffs. Sure, Carolina is in the same division so their path is the same, but Carr at QB, address the X, RB, avoid a few injuries and the Saints are in the playoffs.

With the new DC pickup, Carolina might be on its way to being the best coached team (if not already) in the NFC South

 

[Snakehead]

With the exception of Indy, coaching.

So could Jameis but we rolled out the offense of a retiring Brees instead. I don't think they have it in them to implement an offense to a players strengths.


With the new DC pickup, Carolina might be on its way to being the best coached team (if not already) in the NFC South

Got it. You do to not view anything positive when it comes to the Saints and bash everything the FO does.

It's the offseason, the time when the FO can make changes to improve the team for 2023 and beyond.

 

[SweetT]

Been saying that. I’m not sure why some don’t want Carr. That dude can play. If you get a chance to upgrade the most important position on the team, then you do it. It’s a no brainer for me

 

[jahsoul357]

Got it. You do to not view anything positive when it comes to the Saints and bash everything the FO does.

It's the offseason, the time when the FO can make changes to improve the team for 2023 and beyond.

I didn't take a negative or positive attitude. That's just the truth.

Those teams seem to be better coached than we are (again, with the exception of the Colts) and the Panthers got a legit great DC pickup on top of Reich being their head coach. They currently have the best head coach in the NFC South. It is what it is.

Been saying that. I’m not sure why some don’t want Carr. That dude can play. If you get a chance to upgrade the most important position on the team, then you do it. It’s a no brainer for me

Nobody can really tell us what is being upgraded. He has a higher completion percentage and lower interception rate while having the lowest TD rate between himself, Dalton, and Winston while being worse than Dalton was in the red zone. Again, if we get him, I'm all in but this feels like a manufactured upgrade..lol. And most of us should have seen that 101 yards masterpiece he gave us this season...

 

[Saint Spud]

1. fans are doing that thing when they’re frustrated where they overemphasize their team’s “bad” while failing to acknowledge other teams’ “bad,” too. There’s nothing about those

He has a no-trade clause and can force Las Vegas to cut him loose in 10 days. He has already said he is not extending the bonus deadline. Were I Carr, absent exceptional circumstances, I would force Las Vegas to cut him, giving him complete control over where he goes. And I don't know what teams are interested in him, but again if I were Carr, I would be more interested in played with the Jets and perhaps even the Panthers, Tennessee, Indianapolis and Washington rather than the Saints.

1. fans are doing that thing when they’re frustrated where they overemphasize their team’s “bad” while failing to acknowledge other teams’ “bad,” too. There’s nothing about those other spots that’s a lot more attractive than New Orleans. Reich failed in Indy and was fired. Vrabel could very well be on the hot seat. Indy is a disaster, as is Washington. And as much as I like Saleh, Hackett couldn’t even last a year in Denver and they could very well be one and done together.

2. Carr is likely going to the place which will pay him the most. That will matter above all else. If it’s close, certain things could give one place an edge over another, like a perceived better situation OR personal relationship (like he has with DA).

But none of these situations will matter if we offer him 5-10% more than anyone else (or if one of those teams does the same). It will likely depend a lot more on which team is most motivated to get Carr. Not the other way around.

 

[SWJJ]

 

[jahsoul357]

1. fans are doing that thing when they’re frustrated where they overemphasize their team’s “bad” while failing to acknowledge other teams’ “bad,” too. There’s nothing about those

1. fans are doing that thing when they’re frustrated where they overemphasize their team’s “bad” while failing to acknowledge other teams’ “bad,” too. There’s nothing about those other spots that’s a lot more attractive than New Orleans. Reich failed in Indy and was fired. Vrabel could very well be on the hot seat. Indy is a disaster, as is Washington. And as much as I like Saleh, Hackett couldn’t even last a year in Denver and they could very well be one and done together.

2. Carr is likely going to the place which will pay him the most. That will matter above all else. If it’s close, certain things could give one place an edge over another, like a perceived better situation OR personal relationship (like he has with DA).

But none of these situations will matter if we offer him 5-10% more than anyone else (or if one of those teams does the same). It will likely depend a lot more on which team is most motivated to get Carr. Not the other way around.

-You might want to look up the Reich situation a little more. Him being fired had more to do with Matt Ryan being trash up there than it had to do with Reich's coaching.
-Vrabel shouldn't be on the hot seat as they were #1 in the AFC last season and one game from making the playoffs with the most injured team in the league (sounds familiar?)
-Washington's situation will be determined on their OC pick but still have a better head coach that we do
-I like Saleh too..lol. But the thing about Hackett is I believe that had to do more with the investment in Russ than it did his playbook (not to mention that he just didn't seem to be a good situational guy. Nothing was really wrong with the playbook). The offense the Broncos ran exposed all of Russ weaknesses that I go crucified for bringing up last year (because you can't never critique a QB that the media lifts up. We can only talk about the good and not the bad.). I believe if he would have built an offense around Russ ball, he would still be there. I think Hackett going to the Jets is a great move for New York.

I agree 100% with point 2. I think he will go a place where he can maximize his paycheck.

 

[Snakehead]

Nobody can really tell us what is being upgraded. He has a higher completion percentage and lower interception rate while having the lowest TD rate between himself, Dalton, and Winston while being worse than Dalton was in the red zone. Again, if we get him, I'm all in but this feels like a manufactured upgrade..lol. And most of us should have seen that 101 yards masterpiece he gave us this season...

Do you know what Drew's TD/INT rate was before he came to the Saints? I'll give you a hint, it was no where near as high as Carr's.

When I think back to the prime Brees years which included the 2012 season that PC called, I try to envision how this offense can get back there. That is the offense that PC knew how to call. I'm not going to fault PC for not being the innovator/play-caller that SP is, but he did call a pretty darn good offense in 2012. I think that's what he had hoped when this season started, but our possession WR went down early with injury and we had nobody to replace him. Then you can factor in everything else on offense that went wrong, but once it got derailed, it wasn't going to get fixed midseason, there wasn't the pieces to fix it. We just had to role with what we had. The bright spots were the emergence of Shaheed, Olave and JJ. Add the development of Ruiz and the at least stable, not regression of Trautman and there is something to work with.

Look around the NFL at what QBs are available via draft, trade or FA. Which QB can run that offense in a version close to how Brees ran it? It's one guy, Derek Carr. No rookie QB is going to step in and run it from day 1 and the other available guys are all a step down from Carr. So you go after Carr, it's quite simple.

Now, what pieces are missing?

2012
X - Marques Colston
Y - Lance Moore
Z - Devery Henderson/Joe Morgan
TE - Jimmy Graham
TE - David Thomas
RB - Pierre Thomas
RB - Mark Ingram
RB - Darren Sproles

Assuming MT is released and AK gets suspended (either way he's getting older for a RB)

2023
X - Need
Y - Chris Olave
Z - Rashid Shaheed
TE - Juwan Johnson
TE - Adam Trautman
RB - Alvin Kamara (need)
RB - Need
RB - Need

Sign Allen Lazard to play the X, or draft one; Cedric Tillman, Xavier Hutchinson, Elijah Higgins, Michael Wilson or Jonathan Mingo.

Draft 2-3 RBs. Ideally, draft a 3-down back to fill in for AK when he's suspended and potentially be his replacement. Draft a power back to replace Ingram. Draft a homerun threat like Spears.

2023
X - Elijah Higgins
Y - Chris Olave
Z - Rashid Shaheed
TE - Juwan Johnson
TE - Adam Trautman
RB - Alvin Kamara (need)/Bijan Robinson(If he falls), Zach Charbonnet, Roschon Johnson, etc.
RB - Power back: DeWayne McBride or another power back
RB - Satellite back: Tyjae Spears, Achane or another homerun threat.

Filling in the missing pieces will allow the offense to function how it is supposed to. Carr isn't a turnover machine so there wouldn't be a need to force him to be safe/conservative.

We have 9 picks in the draft. RB is deep and there are a few possession WRs so all of the needs on offense can be addressed in the draft.

 

[Saint Spud]

-You might want to look up the Reich situation a little more. Him being fired had more to do with Matt Ryan being trash up there than it had to do with Reich's coaching.
-Vrabel shouldn't be on the hot seat as they were #1 in the AFC last season and one game from making the playoffs with the most injured team in the league (sounds familiar?)
-Washington's situation will be determined on their OC pick but still have a better head coach that we do
-I like Saleh too..lol. But the thing about Hackett is I believe that had to do more with the investment in Russ than it did his playbook (not to mention that he just didn't seem to be a good situational guy. Nothing was really wrong with the playbook). The offense the Broncos ran exposed all of Russ weaknesses that I go crucified for bringing up last year (because you can't never critique a QB that the media lifts up. We can only talk about the good and not the bad.). I believe if he would have built an offense around Russ ball, he would still be there. I think Hackett going to the Jets is a great move for New York.

I agree 100% with point 2. I think he will go a place where he can maximize his paycheck.

1. Reich went all-in on Wentz. That was the biggest issue. Also, some believe Sirianni was a large reason for the success in Indy and Pederson in Philly. Reich is just as big a question as anyone.

2. Titans trajectory is heading down. And Vrabel is mentioned here among other places. https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...-afc-coaching-and-g-m-hot-spots-for-2023/amp/

3. Rivera listed on the Hot Seat here. https://syndication.bleacherreport....or-2023-before-22-campaign-even-ends.amp.html

4. At this point, Hackett’s reputation is that he got a job because of Aaron Rodgers and couldn’t last a year in a new place. True or not, it hardly speaks of a stable situation.

I’m not saying DA is better than any of those coaches. What I’m saying is that there are questions everywhere. And none of those situations are so much better than New Orleans that it would make or break the Saints chances.

 

[B4YOU]

I like Cosell a lot, too.

1. He didn’t seem to mesh well with McDaniels and his system for whatever reason. He also looked hesitant and tentative towards the end of the season.

2. Personally, I think he’s probably in a similar tier as those two. Dak seems to have taken an odd step back, but unlike Carr, it can’t be written off due to a system change. I kinda like Carr better than Cousins, but that’s more because I’ve never been a huge cousins guy.

Guys I’d definitely put ahead of Carr:

-Mahomes
-Burrow
-Allen
-Herbert
-Hurts
-Jackson
-Rodgers

Maybe

-Lawrence (definitely think he’ll be better in time)
-Tua (bc of health)
-Dak
-Cousins

Then you have a tier of guys that I’m not sure how to place like Goff, Fields, Kyler

So I’d say anywhere from 10-15 for Carr, assuming this season is more of an outlier because of the fit.

I think Stafford is 2nd tier above Carr due to multiple 40 TD seasons. I'd put Hurts and Jackson as 2nd tier QBs.

The 3rd tier QBs with enough starts to rank 13-20 is Goff, Murray, Carr, Jones, Tannehill, Garoppolo, Smith, and Wilson (in no order). Wilson has been 2nd tier most of his career. Goff, Carr, and Smith can jump to 2nd tier. Murray, Jones, Tannehill, and Garoppolo probably live as 3rd tier QBs.

The 4th tier is your rookie/sophomore QBs and borderline starters like Heinicke and Dalton.

 

[Saint Spud]

I think Stafford is 2nd tier above Carr due to multiple 40 TD seasons. I'd put Hurts and Jackson as 2nd tier QBs.

The 3rd tier QBs with enough starts to rank 13-20 is Goff, Murray, Carr, Jones, Tannehill, Garoppolo, Smith, and Wilson (in no order). Wilson has been 2nd tier most of his career. Goff, Carr, and Smith can jump to 2nd tier. Murray, Jones, Tannehill, and Garoppolo probably live as 3rd tier QBs.

The 4th tier is your rookie/sophomore QBs and borderline starters like Heinicke and Dalton.

Stafford doesn’t do much for me and hasn’t for a few years. Maybe early in his career. But he struck gold being in a great system with great weapons in LA for one year.