Saints should start Jameis over Brees during an 'easy' 4-game stretch - Domonique Foxworth (2 Viewers)

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The title got my attention but I went into reading the article with a Very negative attitude. I was surprised and Foxworthy and 4 other jocks brought-up some excellent points. I'll do my best to summarize

1) Foxworthy: Start Winston for the 4-game stretch of 49ers, Falcons, Denver, Falcons
2) Drew has tired each of the last 3-years heading into the playoffs. It would probably help him to have 2-4 games off. And Drew can always come off the bench if necessary
3) The offense needs to have more than 1-player disrupting the opponent defenses: Kamara. Winston would bring the bomb and downfield game back including other players besides Alvin. His point was that defenses will start stacking against Kamara as the season goes on without some changes
4) One of the reporters had a conversation about Brees load with SP during the offseason and asked if SP was going to try and balance Brees load so he is fresh in the offseason. The reporter said it sounded like Payton listened but couldn't tell if he really bought into that idea

Start Winston for 4-Games to Protect Brees Endurance for Playoffs and Open the Offense
 

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I guess you thought the offensive line played great that day....they didn’t....Brees in multiple instances did not have time to even get to the 2nd read. Most QB’s don’t perform well when they are under consistent pressure and Brees is no exception. But to give the offensive line a pass and SP’s unwillingness to run the ball down their throat is being disingenuous....

He is one of the greatest ever, do you deny that?
He's one of the greatest, but his playoffs failures have certainly tarnished his legacy. There's just no way around that observation. We can make all the excuses in the world, but when it comes to gut-check time the greats rise to the occasion. For whatever reason, Brees does not.

We're not saying he sucks, we're saying it's the arm. Everyone sees it the past 3 or 4 seasons, they ALL say it when we lose. Drew and the arm looks tired. We get into the playoffs and it just doesn't have that "pop" anymore. He can't make the throws he's used to making. Look at the dropoff in QBR, look at all the interceptions and drop in efficiency. How do you explain that away?

You and others torch Dennis Allen for bad defense and blame that, but since he got here his defense in our playoff losses have held teams to just 20, 23, and 29 points through four quarters for an average of just 24 points per loss. If any great QB has been let down more in the playoffs by bad defense, it's Aaron Rodgers not Drew Brees. People here talk like we're giving up 35-40+ points in the playoffs.

Run the ball?? You're saying our offensive line sucks, but then also say the magic pill is running the ball. Just....okay that makes sense.
 

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What quarterback doesn't get pressured and hit in the playoffs? Even Tom Brady took his share of games like that, and rose above them. Why couldn't Brees make them pay for blitzing him? He had the quickest release in the regular season. But you don't think the arm was tired? You don't think they had the perfect scheme for our boring predictable unsustainable offense?
You know what post season game Tom Brady got pressured all game long and utterly failed?

2007 Super Bowl vs NY Giants

The greatest regular season team of all time and an unbelievable unstoppable offense (and a career year for Brady) and Tom couldn't beat mediocre Eli head to head.

14 points?

It happens to ALL of them.

His defense has carried him to 4 of his 6 SB wins. Must be nice.

Just ask Aaron Rodgers about all of his post season failures since his Super Bowl win.
 

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It's more than likely his last year and he's not playing like sheet. He's not why we're losing.
Correction. Kamara playing out of his mind and Sanders somehow catching completely inaccurate balls is why we aren't losing more, and we haven't exactly won against any decent teams either.

There's rooting for your HoF QB, and then there's being blind. Put it into perspective, the best game he's had this season is against the Lions. After getting tossed around by the Raiders (which is seeming like a legit playoff contender at this point) and checking down to Kamara all game long against the Packers. You can't go watch the tape and say he played well with a straight face. Go watch some non-broadcast footage of this season. He's missing wide open receivers everywhere, so open that Winston couldn't even throw a pick on the play if he tried.
 

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You know what post season game Tom Brady got pressured all game long and utterly failed?

2007 Super Bowl vs NY Giants
Meh both QB's took their licks and that game just came down to who had the ball last. Not sure what case you're making on this one. Eli and the Giants certainly had the Pats number and I love they won those games.
 

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After yesterday’s wild and unwarranted speculations yesterday about the purchase of a condo. Then the support of this idea...I’m losing faith quick in the common sense of the majority of this board.
Ye when you got 100 mill or so you can pretty much buy anything. I'd have a house in 10 different cities. It wouldnt mean anything more than a place to stay while visiting.
 

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Correction. Kamara playing out of his mind and Sanders somehow catching completely inaccurate balls is why we aren't losing more, and we haven't exactly won against any decent teams either.

There's rooting for your HoF QB, and then there's being blind. Put it into perspective, the best game he's had this season is against the Lions. After getting tossed around by the Raiders (which is seeming like a legit playoff contender at this point) and checking down to Kamara all game long against the Packers. You can't go watch the tape and say he played well with a straight face. Go watch some non-broadcast footage of this season. He's missing wide open receivers everywhere, so open that Winston couldn't even throw a pick on the play if he tried.
Well said.

He left so many yards on the field in the Packers game it was frustrating to watch. When the greatest seam thrower in football saw the open seam, hesitated , and kept checking down to Kamara? That's when you just knew Brees has hit the cliff.
 

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He's one of the greatest, but his playoffs failures have certainly tarnished his legacy. There's just no way around that observation. We can make all the excuses in the world, but when it comes to gut-check time the greats rise to the occasion. For whatever reason, Brees does not.

We're not saying he sucks, we're saying it's the arm. Everyone sees it the past 3 or 4 seasons, they ALL say it when we lose. Drew and the arm looks tired. We get into the playoffs and it just doesn't have that "pop" anymore. He can't make the throws he's used to making. Look at the dropoff in QBR, look at all the interceptions and drop in efficiency. How do you explain that away?

You and others torch Dennis Allen for bad defense and blame that, but since he got here his defense in our playoff losses have held teams to just 20, 23, and 29 points through four quarters for an average of just 24 points per loss. If any great QB has been let down more in the playoffs by bad defense, it's Aaron Rodgers not Drew Brees. People here talk like we're giving up 35-40+ points in the playoffs.

Run the ball?? You're saying our offensive line sucks, but then also say the magic pill is running the ball. Just....okay that makes sense.
All the interceptions? Didn’t we already go through this? This is the perfect example of exaggerating his decline. Since 2017 only one QB in the NFL has thrown fewer....Aaron Rodgers....I think another poster showed Brees stats over the last 4 games below:

107/145 on Completions for 73.7 % 1170 Yards passing. 7 Td 2 INT. Not bad a 41 year old QB. I think Drew is still just warming up. All of this without M.T the ultimate catch machine
Right now, I’d say I really don’t see much drop off in efficiency and as the OP says, this is without perhaps the best WR in the NFL. There are no guarantees of course, Brees could decline to the point where he should be benched....but I don’t see that happening just yet.....

Not saying the offensive line sucks, but from last year forward it became apparent that they are a better run-blocking unit than pass pro. We need to run to set up the pass, something SP I think, struggles with at times. It worked well when we finally had 30+ rushes against the Lions and while we didn’t get as great as production against the Chargers, we ran effectively 25 times and our backs both averaged over 4 yards per carry. If we continue to do that I believe we will reach the playoffs....

And yes, Minn was daring us to run the ball by lining up undersized DE’s inside at DT....SP couldn’t or wouldn’t do it, and it also possible Brees audibles out of some of the called run plays, I honestly don’t know but it was a head scratcher to me....
 
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He's one of the greatest, but his playoffs failures have certainly tarnished his legacy. There's just no way around that observation. We can make all the excuses in the world, but when it comes to gut-check time the greats rise to the occasion. For whatever reason, Brees does not.

We're not saying he sucks, we're saying it's the arm. Everyone sees it the past 3 or 4 seasons, they ALL say it when we lose. Drew and the arm looks tired. We get into the playoffs and it just doesn't have that "pop" anymore. He can't make the throws he's used to making. Look at the dropoff in QBR, look at all the interceptions and drop in efficiency. How do you explain that away?

You and others torch Dennis Allen for bad defense and blame that, but since he got here his defense in our playoff losses have held teams to just 20, 23, and 29 points through four quarters for an average of just 24 points per loss. If any great QB has been let down more in the playoffs by bad defense, it's Aaron Rodgers not Drew Brees. People here talk like we're giving up 35-40+ points in the playoffs.

Run the ball?? You're saying our offensive line sucks, but then also say the magic pill is running the ball. Just....okay that makes sense.
You are saying something that is really hard to face for most of us Who Dats. Your point about Brees recent playoff performances is spot-on. He has simply not looked good in the playoffs for 3-years as you mention. 1st ballot HOF QBs have some of these periods, often a result of other team factors. However, these 3 playoff losses are not the stuff for a GOAT conversation. The GOAT elite find a way to win most big playoff games and SBs.
 

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Great in theory to save Drew for the playoffs, but what happens if Winston goes 1 - 3 and puts us in a playoff hole. I say we stick with Drew and see where it takes us this year. If we don't fix the defense quickly nothing will much matter anyway!
 

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He's one of the greatest, but his playoffs failures have certainly tarnished his legacy. There's just no way around that observation. We can make all the excuses in the world, but when it comes to gut-check time the greats rise to the occasion. For whatever reason, Brees does not.
That's unfair.

2010 - Defense is horrible, the background for one of the greatest TD runs ever. Offense scored 34 points.
2011 - Saints go up by 3 points with less than 90 seconds left, defense lets SF march down the field 80 yards and score a TD. Offense scored 32 points without Pierre Thomas
2013 - Lost a tight game against the eventual SB champions. The height of the Legion of Boom, or Legion of "they won't call pass interference on every play"
2017- With 25 seconds on the clock, after drive that put the Saints ahead, the defense lets the Vikings go 80 yards and score a TD.
2018 - 2 blatant non-calls very late in the game give the Rams the momentum ( DPI on Lewis, roughing the passer on OT INT).
2019 - I'll give you that one.
 
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You are saying something that is really hard to face for most of us Who Dats. Your point about Brees recent playoff performances is spot-on. He has simply not looked good in the playoffs for 3-years as you mention. 1st ballot HOF QBs have some of these periods, often a result of other team factors. However, these 3 playoff losses are not the stuff for a GOAT conversation. The GOAT elite find a way to win most big playoff games and SBs.
Despite not looking his best he brought us to a lead with 25 seconds left in the first Vikings matchup. Another lead against the Rams with less than 2 minutes to go and were screwed very badly by the refs. Despite struggling against the Vikings again last year, we still tied and took it to overtime.

Who is the goat in your mind? Who are all these qbs winning multiple Superbowls? Every one with more than one ring has had a good defense. Even with our run in 2009 it took the defense stepping it up. While Brady has won the most and has thrown 73 TDs in the postseason, he's also thrown 35 picks and has had a top 10 defense most of those years. The few years he did not have a top 10 defense he also did not have postseason success. Those years he was booted from the postseason by the likes of Jake Plummer and Mark Sanchez. Last year he had the number 1 scoring defense and still lost, and that's probably why Bellicheck got rid of him. Give Drew that defense we win.
Peyton Manning has notoriously struggled in the postseason, his second title was solely because of his defense. Big Ben? Lol.

While Brees isn't in his prime, how is Winston going to come in his first year with the same exact team and win? Last year Teddy won 5, he also had the entire previous season to learn. We were also playing like a 13-3 team overall offense and defense were just clicking, didn't matter if it was Brees or Teddy. This year we're playing like a 7-9 team.
 
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sfidc3

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You are saying something that is really hard to face for most of us Who Dats. Your point about Brees recent playoff performances is spot-on. He has simply not looked good in the playoffs for 3-years as you mention. 1st ballot HOF QBs have some of these periods, often a result of other team factors. However, these 3 playoff losses are not the stuff for a GOAT conversation. The GOAT elite find a way to win most big playoff games and SBs.
That's unfair.

2010 - Defense is horrible, the background for one of the greatest TD runs ever. Offense scored 34 points.
2011 - Saints go up by 3 points with less than 90 seconds left, defense lets SF march down the field 80 yards and score a TD. Offense scored 32 points without Pierre Thomas
2013 - Lost a tight game against the eventual SB champions. The height of the Legion of Boom, or Legion of "they won't call pass interference on every play"
2017- With 25 seconds on the clock, after drive that put the Saints ahead, the defense lets the Vikings go 80 yards and score a TD.
2018 - 2 blatant non-calls very late in the game give the Rams the momentum ( DPI on Lewis, roughing the passer on OT INT).
2019 - I'll give you that one.
I kind of agree with both of these takes. I can honestly see it both ways. Brees has played well enough to have a chance to win in 2017 and of course, should have won in 18....but, his performance in those games were ok, but not great...

2017 against Minn 25 of 40 for 294, 3 TD’s, 2 INT’s (the turnovers put us in a hole)
2018 against the Rams 26 of 40 for 249, 2 TD’s and 1 INT

Those would be actually poor games for him in the regular season. Yes both teams had good defenses but he didn’t seem sharp in either of those games.

In 2010 and 2011 he easily played well enough to win both of those games. In both those games it is rather obvious the defense let us down....
 

SystemShock

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I kind of agree with both of these takes. I can honestly see it both ways. Brees has played well enough to have a chance to win in 2017 and of course, should have won in 18....but, his performance in those games were ok, but not great...

2017 against Minn 25 of 40 for 294, 3 TD’s, 2 INT’s (the turnovers put us in a hole)
2018 against the Rams 26 of 40 for 249, 2 TD’s and 1 INT

Those would be actually poor games for him in the regular season. Yes both teams had good defenses but he didn’t seem sharp in either of those games.

In 2010 and 2011 he easily played well enough to win both of those games. In both those games it is rather obvious the defense let us down....
I'll say 2 things:
Stats don't tell you how games played out. Case and point 2018. At the very least, the stat line should've read 27 of 40 for 265 yds, 2 TDs no INTs.

Also, during the regular season, teams don't often play against playoff teams on the road.
 

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