Saints Saints TE Coach (Dan Campbell) gushes over Adam Trautman ("...he can do it all")! (1 Viewer)

[Day1]

He was fast enough to get drafted, and the TE coach likes him. Brenner and Tice ran like men carrying a sofa.

 

[jasonsw]

I mean, he came from Dayton. I doubt he had enough time to properly work on his 40. I bet if he got a chance to run again at a pro day or private workout, he would've run much better.

I bet at Dayton he also he also didn't have access to the best athletic trainers. If he went to a major school I'm sure he would be around 4.5ish

 

[LetsGetWaffles]

There are 0 instances of Cook running a 40 yard seam route last year. Lots of routes that relied on short area quickness though, which the 3 cone drill is a good indicator of. Not many defenders run a faster 3 cone than Trautman. A few smaller corners that are faster in short areas, which if you go back to look at Jimmy Graham's highlights with us, many of his deep routes there were defenders with pretty good coverage on him, he just simply outmuscled them and Brees had the accuracy to put it to where only he could get it.

There are 0 instances of Kittle running a 40 yard seam route last year. His biggest play was 61 yards which came from the deep safety expecting him to cut to the outside instead of the inside. A 45 yard catch from all the linebackers biting on play action. A 39 yard play on us by being quick in short areas and the defender couldn't make the tackle. A 36 yard play against the Bengals because the db bit on play action stumbles when he realizes his mistake, still catches up but Kittle fought his way for 10 more yards. A 36 yarder against the Chargers another play action play freezing linebackers and exploiting a hole in coverage, literally nobody covering in a wide open space in the middle of the field. A 30 yarder against the Cardinals simply because 2 DBs couldn't bring him down, not by Kittle outrunning anyone. 29 yarder against the Panthers, the linebacker actually has good coverage on Kittle but for some reason releases him to the deep safety to cover someone that was already covered, the s could've made a play on it but completely missed. Those were his biggest plays last year and all came on mental errors, scheme and outmuscling defenders.

You say 5 seconds but the average play the ball needs to be out In under 2.7 seconds in the NFL. The 5 second plays are going to be play action and if the defense bites it'll be enough for him to gain seperation.

This is why I don't get the dissing of MT by other fans for tons of short plays. It's literally how our offense works. Even Julio doesn't have that many big plays a year (usually 3 plays over 40 yards a season) When the Falcons lost the Superbowl they tried to run too many slow developing pass plays instead of short and quick passes mixed with running and they lost a 28 to 3 lead

I’m not debating if it’s common to run 40 yard seen routes bc clearly that’s not normal. I never said it was. You made a point that was wrong: .25 is barely visible to the naked eye and isn’t a big difference.

There are many plays in which TEs run long distances w and wo the ball where a player w a faster 40 time would potentially be more elusive than one w a slower one bc he’s less likely to get caught from behind and be able to create more vertical separation. Idk how that’s debatable bc if player x is faster than player y then player x will go farther faster. That’s all I ever said.

I also never mentioned anything about 40 times being important for TEs or even WRs if you wanna bring up MT for some reason, but don’t pretend MT or any other WR for that matter wouldn’t be more dangerous if they were faster.

 

[St. Pike]

Thats why I specifically mentioned the seem route bc it's basically the only time a TE's route is sorta straight. And no need to get defensive either either bc we all want Trautman to ball out, but you specifically said that its unnoticeable to the eye and therefore relatively insignificant. I showed you w very simple math how it isn't.

Longer passing plays, where receivers (TEs included) are trying to get as deep as possible as fast as possible, are about 5 seconds long, so therefore, this is actually relative info. 2.5 more yards of separation or when taking an angle to run away from a LB can make the difference btw a catch or an int, a 4th down or 1st down, a TD or a FG.

huh, I am not defensive. I do not find your analysis particularly relevant. Sorry.

 

[dwid]

I’m not debating if it’s common to run 40 yard seen routes bc clearly that’s not normal. I never said it was. You made a point that was wrong: .25 is barely visible to the naked eye and isn’t a big difference.

There are many plays in which TEs run long distances w and wo the ball where a player w a faster 40 time would potentially be more elusive than one w a slower one bc he’s less likely to get caught from behind and be able to create more vertical separation. Idk how that’s debatable bc if player x is faster than player y then player x will go farther faster. That’s all I ever said.

I also never mentioned anything about 40 times being important for TEs or even WRs if you wanna bring up MT for some reason, but don’t pretend MT or any other WR for that matter wouldn’t be more dangerous if they were faster.

Would MT be more dangerous if he were faster? Maybe. Or maybe he wouldn't have developed his game to where it is today. Ever notice most of the speed guys are one trick ponies? Over 100 receivers have run in the 4.3 range in the last 20 years. Only 9 of them have had success with 1k seasons. Out of all the sub 4.3 guys none have had a 1k season. To me that indicates that a few timed sprints without pads doesn't tell us a whole lot.

That hypothetical scenario is like saying Drew would be more dangerous if he were 6'5 with a cannon for an arm....maybe but perhaps he wouldn't be the same. Obviously he's been successful without those attributes.

There are many tight ends that have had success in the 4.7 to 4.9 range you just cherry picked a few , and if this guy is filling the Josh Hill role as mostly a blocker then his speed would matter even less. Baltimore has a guy in that role who puts up a few hundred yards a season while mostly blocking, he ran a 5.04 40 yard dash

The other hole in your argument is your assuming that everybody on the field runs their exact 40 time in pads throughout the course of an entire game. Some players just have better form with the 40. Not to mention players tend to play with minor injuries all the time, players are rarely 100 percent during the season and everyone has different stamina. Trautman's 3 cone drill was faster than many starting receivers including Michael Thomas. His shuttle time was about the same as Julio Jones, that's a pretty good indication that he's not slow.

 

[dutar76]

Would MT be more dangerous if he were faster? Maybe. Or maybe he wouldn't have developed his game to where it is today. Ever notice most of the speed guys are one trick ponies? Over 100 receivers have run in the 4.3 range in the last 20 years. Only 9 of them have had success with 1k seasons. Out of all the sub 4.3 guys none have had a 1k season. To me that indicates that a few timed sprints without pads doesn't tell us a whole lot.

That hypothetical scenario is like saying Drew would be more dangerous if he were 6'5 with a cannon for an arm....maybe but perhaps he wouldn't be the same. Obviously he's been successful without those attributes.

There are many tight ends that have had success in the 4.7 to 4.9 range you just cherry picked a few , and if this guy is filling the Josh Hill role as mostly a blocker then his speed would matter even less. Baltimore has a guy in that role who puts up a few hundred yards a season while mostly blocking, he ran a 5.04 40 yard dash

The other hole in your argument is your assuming that everybody on the field runs their exact 40 time in pads throughout the course of an entire game. Some players just have better form with the 40. Not to mention players tend to play with minor injuries all the time, players are rarely 100 percent during the season and everyone has different stamina. Trautman's 3 cone drill was faster than many starting receivers including Michael Thomas. His shuttle time was about the same as Julio Jones, that's a pretty good indication that he's not slow.

I don't think 40 time is a huge deal to teams and scouts when it comes to TE's. There may be a certain threshold teams put on that time where it becomes a red flag that makes them go back and re-watch tape of the player though. Say a >5 second forty would definitely make me question if a player is fast or athletic enough for the pro-game, but wouldn't make him an automatic "pass".

With Trautman, it may be a little more difficult to interpret his college game tape though. He didn't often race downfield against Big school blue-chips with elite blazing speed while playing for Dayton. Running 4.8 at the combine likely just muddied that up even more. Even though that could simply be attributed to the track training he had leading up to the underwear olympics, it's still not prototype #'s for the position. But he does have NFL TE prototype body and short area quickness. Those are pretty good redeeming qualities.

I don't expect a lot from him this season, as it usually takes TEs a year or so to develop in the NFL. And that's especially true in our offense. Heck, it took Cook, a very experienced TE half a season to finally click. I'm thinking his role will be as a blocker early on. From there he will be developed at whatever speed he can process. At best I see 30 targets, 20 catches, 200 yards, and 2 TDs. Anything more than that and I'll be impressed and excited.

 

[Mississippi Saints Fan]

The one thing that really sticks out to me about Trautman's 40 yard dash is that he ran straight up the entire way. Now, watching Kittle's 40 yard dash, his body didn't get into a fully upright position until about the 15 yard line. That tells me that Kittle was much more prepared and had better training for the 40. I admit, I was a little put off by his slow time. We've been taught to believe that 40 times are the grand measurement for a player's speed. We tend to think of it similarly to a car's 0-60 time. How quick can it get from point A to B? But after watching these two player's runs, there's no question Trautman could have had a much better time with better training.

 

[sfidc3]

Would MT be more dangerous if he were faster? Maybe. Or maybe he wouldn't have developed his game to where it is today. Ever notice most of the speed guys are one trick ponies? Over 100 receivers have run in the 4.3 range in the last 20 years. Only 9 of them have had success with 1k seasons. Out of all the sub 4.3 guys none have had a 1k season. To me that indicates that a few timed sprints without pads doesn't tell us a whole lot.

That hypothetical scenario is like saying Drew would be more dangerous if he were 6'5 with a cannon for an arm....maybe but perhaps he wouldn't be the same. Obviously he's been successful without those attributes.

There are many tight ends that have had success in the 4.7 to 4.9 range you just cherry picked a few , and if this guy is filling the Josh Hill role as mostly a blocker then his speed would matter even less. Baltimore has a guy in that role who puts up a few hundred yards a season while mostly blocking, he ran a 5.04 40 yard dash

The other hole in your argument is your assuming that everybody on the field runs their exact 40 time in pads throughout the course of an entire game. Some players just have better form with the 40. Not to mention players tend to play with minor injuries all the time, players are rarely 100 percent during the season and everyone has different stamina. Trautman's 3 cone drill was faster than many starting receivers including Michael Thomas. His shuttle time was about the same as Julio Jones, that's a pretty good indication that he's not slow.

Just wanted to compliment you on a great post above. Exactly how I feel....Cheers

 

[bobad]

When Hill retires, I would like to find a "too tall" FB to convert to TE like Todd Christensen. He blocked well, had good hands, and really punished LB's and DB's after the catch. 6'3 with long arms is good enough, if he has a FB attitude.

 

[ndcc]

The one thing that really sticks out to me about Trautman's 40 yard dash is that he ran straight up the entire way. Now, watching Kittle's 40 yard dash, his body didn't get into a fully upright position until about the 15 yard line. That tells me that Kittle was much more prepared and had better training for the 40. I admit, I was a little put off by his slow time. We've been taught to believe that 40 times are the grand measurement for a player's speed. We tend to think of it similarly to a car's 0-60 time. How quick can it get from point A to B? But after watching these two player's runs, there's no question Trautman could have had a much better time with better training.

This...

...is an excellent breakdown and analysis.