Salary cap: how do we get under? (1 Viewer)

[Pdlc]

I'm surprised Smith hasn't been cut yet tbh. It seems like the inevitable.

 

[LSSpam]

Very well done.... But you still need about $3 million for the draft class.

There's still additional both to spend and to cut out there. For instance, Malcolm Jenkins carries about 2.5 million in potential cap space. Roman Harper would have to be a restructure, but he could free up an additional few million. David Thomas is worth about 1.7 million in cap space. Zach Strief is worth about 2.5 and his contract is expiring next year (extension/restructure).

But if course, you have to replace all of these cuts just listed.

All together though the cap situation is tight, not precarious.

 

[DeBru]

We need more of this...

Cutting Vilma, Harper, and Smith saves $19 million

Restructuring Brees/Evans contracts can save as much as ~$13 million

Not that hard really

And less of this...

$20,154,522 over cap

Cuts
Smith - $12,541,666
Herring- $1,600,000
Chamberlain - $1,050,000
Caps now at $4,962,856 over

Restructures
Vilma - $4.8 salary and $2.1 in bonuses can be turned into a $800,000 salary and a $1 million signing bonus. with a threat of getting cut and dealing with retirement, this is possible.
Greer - $3.6 and $500,000 bonus can turn into $800,000 salary and a $3 million signing bonus spread out over the next 2 years.

This gets us $3,300,000 under the cap.

Since Brees didn't restructure in time. (3 days after the super bowl) the most cap we could free up with a restructure now is around $3 million.

Jahri Evan restructure at the league minumum and a 6 million signing bonus, get us 4.7 million in cap.

now We/re somewhere around $10,300,000 under.

De la Puenta tendered at around $2,300,000
Bushrod signed to a 4yr/24,600,000- $8,000,000 signing bonus spread out of the 4 years (I used Jared Gaither's contract as reference) puts about $2,600,000 in cap for 2013

A Pierre Thomas trade is the smartest. His contract had no signing bonus and makes it very cap friendly. Freeing up $2,500,000.

Now we're $7,900,000 under the cap.

Now lets say Spencer demands to dollar. Say somewhere around 6yrs/$61,500,000. A first year Cap hit of around $7,700,000.

leaving us at $200,000 under.

Much easier than all this clutter about who makes what and giving opinions on how much it saves.

 

[CitySaint]

Didn't Brees take a low ball deal last year for the team? Why would he restructure and get low-balled again, he is out best player? Evans restructured last year for the team. It may cost more to cut Harper than keep him, if so, we are screwed because he would have no incentive to restructure. You have to look at this as who is capable of being restructured/extended and who is an option for being cut, and you cannot base this on a cutting vs performance basis. You may end up cutting someone needed and producing due to high salary.

 

[Dart]

Bushrod doesn't deserve to return. He was our worst OL last year (backed up by PFF and Football Outsiders) and he'll be looking for a far bigger contract than he is worth.

Drew DOES have great awareness and does compensate for poor play from the tackles but his play also dropped off last year and I'd like to see us upgrade LT either in FA or thru the draft so he can get back to MVP form.

 

[Scotlandsaint]

Didn't Brees take a low ball deal last year for the team? Why would he restructure and get low-balled again, he is out best player? Evans restructured last year for the team. It may cost more to cut Harper than keep him, if so, we are screwed because he would have no incentive to restructure. You have to look at this as who is capable of being restructured/extended and who is an option for being cut, and you cannot base this on a cutting vs performance basis. You may end up cutting someone needed and producing due to high salary.

Brees restructuring is discussed at the very end of this interview with Larry Holder, essentially he'd get more of the guaranteed money now and take a lower base salary. He wouldn't be taking any less money.

PFT Live 2/6: Tim McManus, Larry Holder | ProFootballTalk

I think Smith and Evans did this last year, look a lower base salary but got some bonus dollar early. They didn't take a pay cut, just restructured.

 

[Le_Moyne]

Brees restructuring is discussed at the very end of this interview with Larry Holder, essentially he'd get more of the guaranteed money now and take a lower base salary. He wouldn't be taking any less money.

PFT Live 2/6: Tim McManus, Larry Holder | ProFootballTalk

I think Smith and Evans did this last year, look a lower base salary but got some bonus dollar early. They didn't take a pay cut, just restructured.

IN two years, Brees will have cap numbers in the 25 M$ range. Restructuring him now would be a short sighted move that would kill the future of the team.

At some point we need to stop pushing back the money, that`s what got us in the situation we are now.

I hope we go young and cheap this year. In any case, this season should be seen as a transition year. I don`t want to have an average of 5M$ of cap space a year for the next 4 years. Let`s clean it up this year and lets give us the flexibility to go after REAL impact players in the next few offseasons, not just band aid that we "hope" can work.

 

[LSSpam]

IN two years, Brees will have cap numbers in the 25 M$ range. Restructuring him now would be a short sighted move that would kill the future of the team.

At some point we need to stop pushing back the money, that`s what got us in the situation we are now.

I hope we go young and cheap this year. In any case, this season should be seen as a transition year. I don`t want to have an average of 5M$ of cap space a year for the next 4 years. Let`s clean it up this year and lets give us the flexibility to go after REAL impact players in the next few offseasons, not just band aid that we "hope" can work.

You could always simply extend Brees contract another year.

At some point this leaves us holding the bag still when Brees retires with guaranteed money still unaccounted for in the cap, but, well hell, the year after Brees retires we're probably going to struggle anyways. There's something to be said for riding this party for as long as possible and worrying about the tab at the end of the night.

 

[stevend]

I genuinely like Vilma, and will be sad to see him and Smith go, but looking at just how much we can save by letting them go I can't imagine that both aren't gone.

What most people fail to realize is the only thing that is guaranteed is what's guaranteed.

In other words if you have a player willing, you don't have to cut them. For instance cutting Vilma would hit the cap at 2 million, but save 6 million. So everyone says - that is an easy cut. But the fact is Vilma could also say this year I'll play for 800,000 and that would still save the 5.2 million vs. the cap.

Now don't get me wrong it's not that easy because most players will walk before taking a pay cut that big when most of the money is coming no matter what, but there are many more options then just cutting a player, and usually the biggest factor is their market value.

If Vilma was released would he get more than 2 million a year from another team? Could his contract be worked easily into a 3 year deal that is more incentive based? Say for instance you take the 2 owed +1 more million and put it in a signing bounus on a 3 year deal. So that hits the cap 1 million a year for 2013, 2014 & 2015. Then you make his base salary 1 million a year with playing time and a pro-bowl bonus.

Well all of a sudden he's still hitting the cap for 2 million a year, but he makes 4 million this year (2 more than he would have made) and is more cap friendly to cut in 2014 if he's not back to 100% and does truly appear to be be losing a step.

 

[MistaWhoDat]

i remember last year we were strapped, we were not gonna be able to sign Colston and Nicks, we signed Colston. Then there was Lofton, Hawthorne and Bunkley, everybody was saying we MAY be able to sign one but it sure wont be Lofton he wants to much money. Well we signed all three plus Chaimberlain and Grubbs!!! Some of you people think you know but Loomis knows " in loomis we trust"

 

[stevend]

So to answer the quesiton how do we get under:

First I think we are closer to 15 mil over. I think we carry about 5 into 2013 which is not factored yet.

Release Will Smith - that should save about 7-8 million vs. the cap.

Extend Vilma as I stated in the above post - that would save about 6 million

Release Will Herring should save about 1.5 million vs. cap

Release Dave Thomas - could save about 1.5

Convert 4 million of Ben Grubbs salary into signing bonus - saves about 3 million vs. cap



- That's 19-20 million

Theoretically Smith, Thomas & Herring's contracts could be redone, but I can't see Smith taking that big of a hit in salary, Herring hasn't played up to his contract and Thomas doesn't seem to be the same player as he used to be. We could draft Mike Williams out of Alabama in the 6th or 7th round and not miss a beat at TE.

 

[Analyze This]

Bushrod doesn't deserve to return. He was our worst OL last year (backed up by PFF and Football Outsiders) and he'll be looking for a far bigger contract than he is worth.

Drew DOES have great awareness and does compensate for poor play from the tackles but his play also dropped off last year and I'd like to see us upgrade LT either in FA or thru the draft so he can get back to MVP form.

While I agree that Bushrod can be upgraded, it is really risky not to sign him. Bushrod was pretty bad last year BUT is normally an above average LT (not pro bowl worthy but serviceable) and he has never missed a start.

That last part cannot be said for most of the FA tackles. I don't see Clady, Long or Albert as realistic options for us. That leaves Beatty, Baker, Vollmer, and McKinnie who all have health issues, some have major healthy issues.

The whole draft is a crapshoot and I do not want to gamble with Drew's healthy. I just do not see Payton starting a rookie at LT, unless we go LT in the 1st. It would be ideal to draft a LT in the 3rd and develop him for a year but tagging Bushrod and starting Brown is not an option (I hope).

This makes me want to stick with Bushrod if he does not overprice his services. The left tackle position is quite a conundrum.

 

[Saint_Ward]

You could always simply extend Brees contract another year.

At some point this leaves us holding the bag still when Brees retires with guaranteed money still unaccounted for in the cap, but, well hell, the year after Brees retires we're probably going to struggle anyways. There's something to be said for riding this party for as long as possible and worrying about the tab at the end of the night.

only part of this is directed to you, the rest is just general thoughts.

True, but in two years, an extension would cost a lot more. What's the going rate for a top QB going to be in 3 years? it's 5yr/100M now. Is Flacco going to get that money or more? Will it be a 30M/yr?

I don't think they do anything with Brees' contract, because he's already getting a ton of money the first three years.

J. Evans is more likely for restructure. But that can at the most only save about 4M in cap space. More likely they just shave 1-2M off of that. (last year they did a 2.3M restructure bonus).

Ben Grubs would be in the same boat. They could save a few Mil in cap space with a bonus restructure. It's easier when there are a lot of years left and his cap numbers don't skyrocket too bad.

PT can get a bonus this year (assuming he's still in our long term plans) and shave 1-2M off the cap.

Strief isn't going anywhere. He's relatively cheap and he's a starter. He is also in his last year of his contract. We may actually extend him, so long as he's not asking for a big payday. You won't find a replacement on the open market at his rate. Also, in case we lose Bushrod, we want continuity. Payton and Brees have valued keeping the line as intact as they can. They'll lose one guy, but I don't think we've ever lost two at a time or more.

Jenkin's can't be restructured. He's either playing out his contract here, getting extended or traded/cut. But Payton and Ryan need to figure out his role on this team and if it's still where he is or elsewhere. That will dictate that move.

Bunkley has too much dead money against him now, so he can't be cut. He's going to either play out his deal as is, or get a little bonus money up front to lower his cap hit 1-2M.

Now, Lofton and Hawthorne are interesting. They have large Roster bonuses. However, now that I see their dead money (not sure how accurate it is), cutting Hawthorne would cost us more than keeping him. But Lofton's roster bonus is big enough that if we cut him, we'd actually save 3.6M against the cap (might not be exactly accurate). I've said this before, the ILB's are interesting because of the contract situations. I strongly doubt, unless a major deal is made with Vilma, that we'd keep Lofton, Hawthorne, and Vilma. One will be gone, and it may or may not be Vilma.

Harper only saves us about 1M from cutting him. We can save 2-3M by giving him up front money, which will cause his final year to blow up in Cap, but then you can possibly make a cut, if needed, or extend him.

I think the only easy cuts in terms of pure financial issues is Will Smith and Vilma. And possibly Lofton.

I think we have a lot of room to maneuver. I feel fine with our cap situation.

 

[Saint_Ward]

New Orleans Saints - 2013 Cap Hits I get my info from here. it's not exactly spot on, but pretty close.

 

[Danneaux]

As pointed out by Mike Triplett of The Times-Picayune,

Releasing Smith - $7.72 million in cap space.
Releasing Jonathan Vilma - $6 million
Brees' contract conversion - $6.6 million
Jahri Evans' contract conversion - $5 million
Guard Ben Grubbs contract conversion - $3.3 million


There's 28 million right away.