Salary cap not as bad as some think. According to ESPN. (1 Viewer)

[birdog]

Yep...we really need to hit the jackpot in the upcoming drafts to offset this. Draft picks = extremely cheap talent.

Which is quite disturbing, considering the Saints track record in drafting defensive talent. If the Saints FO continues the poor showing in drafting defensive players....it will ensure not only cap hell, but no real chance to be a contender with that type of defense.

 

[ASaintFerLife]

Which is quite disturbing, considering the Saints track record in drafting defensive talent. If the Saints FO continues the poor showing in drafting defensive players....it will ensure not only cap hell, but no real chance to be a contender with that type of defense.

Well said, same in your earlier post about what Albert Breer said.

I makes me wonder what kind of rush deal was put together to sign Brees, especially since we didnt have SP in for the start of the season as well as Vitt, and we needed a leader.

This might come back to bite us, and sounds likely, and no this is not a Brees bash, this is contract vs cap talk.

Thanks

 

[guillermo]

Well said, same in your earlier post about what Albert Breer said.
I makes me wonder what kind of rush deal was put together to sign Brees, especially since we didnt have SP in for the start of the season as well as Vitt, and we needed a leader.
This might come back to bite us, and sounds likely, and no this is not a Brees bash, this is contract vs cap talk.
Thanks

The thing that keeps me optimistic, is that right now we are maybe the only ones with a quarterback contract problem, but we will not be for long.

Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan are next, and will be closer to Brees' contract, but more important, Aaron Rodgers and Eli Manning's contract are coming soon, both negotiated by the same agent, Tom Condon, and will affect dramatically the team of Goodell's patron, John Mara.

Turn this at the time when Brees's contract will be hell, Cam Newton, Andy Dalton, Andrew Luck, RGIII, Kaepernick and Russell Wilson are not able to renegotiate their rookie deals, so they will be asking for the moon in their second.

Not good for a good amount of teams, when their QBs will be eating a third of the contract.

I know the actual agreement with the union is for 10 years, but I don't see peace last that long.

The NFL will have to move at some point, because they will be killing their own teams if they keep the actual cap figures (yep, we even hear that the cap won't raise much after the TV deals).

One idea I can see working in the future is similar to the MLS, to have a designated number of players (from 1 to 3) exempted from the cap. That way teams can keep their stars and a competitive product on the table.

And returning to the saints premise, the way the thing is structured, we might as well understand that Drew's contract is a 3 year deal. Either the contract will change dramatically or he is gone, as hard as it may sounds, it is a reality.

 

[Lurkaholic]

I know the actual agreement with the union is for 10 years, but I don't see peace last that long.

The NFL will have to move at some point, because they will be killing their own teams if they keep the actual cap figures (yep, we even hear that the cap won't raise much after the TV deals).

Boy are you ever right about that.

 

[Professor]

And after the Saints released David Thomas, Yasinksas said the Saints were now about $16 million over the cap, which is more accurate. (This was AFTER he said they were about 13 million over.) When reading ESPN, keep this in mind: They are like the guy who spouts stats--all of which he is making up. They want to SOUND like experts, but they aren't even close.

This is the best site for salary cap I've found:

New Orleans Saints - 2013 Cap Hits

Deduct the "dead money" figure from the cap figure, and you'll know how much the Saints will save by releasing the player.

 

[jimrip]

I have been asking myself this question since I saw that the Eagles and Vick turned a huge long term deal into a new one year contract. I wonder if there are any cap ramifications.

I'm pretty sure the bulk of the money in Vick's contract was a series of roster bonuses. Those differ from a signing bonus in that they count fully against the cap for the year in which they are paid. Tearing up his contract simply meant they didn't have to pay any of the roster bonuses, nor did any count against the cap.

 

[BIG E]

I think Brees should restructure his contract since he is the main reason we're in cap hell to start with. After his performance last year he should be glad to give some of it back. He has plenty of NyQuil (money) to keep him sleeping just fine at night.

 

[60minutes]

Bingo!......That is 100% correct.

I heard an interesting conversation this morning on Sirius...Albert Breer is a regular guest on the early morning show with Ross Tucker, and he asked Breer eactly this question. Breer then explained in details about reality, vs cap. citing the Saints cap situation as the prime example.

He said, the Saints spent $170mills real money last year for the $120 mill cap, ....that's real money. But they only show $120mills for the cap spending of last year......so where is the difference? We're talking $50mills here of real money.....

He then explained....Brees got $37mills bonus, but out of that, only $7mills are declared into the cap. The rest of that money is spread over the length of the contract...5 years, to be exact. Colston also got a new contract, so did others....Grubbs, Lofton, Hawthorne.....and all of them got a sizable signing bonus. that's where the $50mills are actually. And that money is spread out through out the length of their respective contracts.

Breer said that the Brees contract is a bad contract for the Saints, the way it was constructed......and it ensures cap hell for quite some time....less in the beginning, a lot more towards the end.

This is the reason why I firmly believe that the league needs to allow each team to designate a franchise player who would not count against the cap as long as his salary accounted for 20% or less of the total cap. Otherwise, QB salaries are going to kill teams as long as the cap stays low.

And after the Saints released David Thomas, Yasinksas said the Saints were now about $16 million over the cap, which is more accurate. (This was AFTER he said they were about 13 million over.) When reading ESPN, keep this in mind: They are like the guy who spouts stats--all of which he is making up. They want to SOUND like experts, but they aren't even close.

This is the best site for salary cap I've found:

New Orleans Saints - 2013 Cap Hits

Deduct the "dead money" figure from the cap figure, and you'll know how much the Saints will save by releasing the player.

Finally, some accurate numbers. Two quick points. The "dead money" is not necessarily what you would deduct to determine the cap space saved. The dead money is money that still has to be paid out even if the player is not on the team. Basically, it can be guaranteed money, which could be in the form of signing bonuses, roster bonuses (previously earned), performance-based bonuses, and other contract guarantees.

Second, when you add up the money that can be saved by cutting Will Smith, Jonathan Vilma, Roman Harper, and Will Herring, it totals $26, 374, 166. I know that Payton likes some of these guys a lot but SOMETHING HAS TO GIVE! We can restructure Bunkley and Hawthorne but I honestly feel that we have to cut the aforementioned four. By cutting those four players, we would be $11, 637, 348 underneath the cap assuming that the Profootball Talk report stating that the cap will rise to $122, 000, 000.

To restructure those deals will only put us in a tougher situation in future years. And the reality is that, while you can find a way for Vilma and Smith, particularly, to fit into the new defense, it is not necessary. We are no longer running a 4-3, and so both players are expendable. I would much prefer going with younger players who would be better fits inside our 3-4 scheme and who would be cheaper than restructuring deals that will only add to our problem. The Jets made similar cuts the other day and saved $30 million to move nearly $10 million under the cap. WE should follow suit and release these players. If the team then wants to sign them all back to newer, cap-friendly deals, fine. But we have to get them off the books as things currently stand.

 

[60minutes]

I think Brees should restructure his contract since he is the main reason we're in cap hell to start with. After his performance last year he should be glad to give some of it back. He has plenty of NyQuil (money) to keep him sleeping just fine at night.

He cannot. Well, he can but it will only add to the problem. His contract was already set up in a way to offer us lower salaries as possible in the first few seasons while having salaries that jump astronomically in future years.

The best thing we can do is cut Vilma, Smith, Harper, and Herring, save nearly $27 million and get younger with players who are better fits for the 3-4 defense.

 

[RockyMtnSaint]

The best thing we can do is cut Vilma, Smith, Harper, and Herring, save nearly $27 million and get younger with players who are better fits for the 3-4 defense.

Those 4 only get us a couple of million under the cap.

Second, when you add up the money that can be saved by cutting Will Smith, Jonathan Vilma, Roman Harper, and Will Herring, it totals $26, 374, 166

Please show your math. I come up with vastly different numbers.

 

[60minutes]

Those 4 only get us a couple of million under the cap.



Please show your math. I come up with vastly different numbers.

Subtract the prorated signing bonus (which in the case of Smith, Vilma, and Harper would be charged over two seasons) from the total cap figure. To be clear, you do not have to worry about dividing the bonus posted on this site into two seasons because they have already done it for you. For instance, Roman Harper has $3.5 million in terms of his prorated bonus to be divided over this upcoming season and next. But the site has already listed his bonus as $1.75 million for this season. In years past, if a player was cut, his entire remaining bonus would accelerate against the cap. Nowadays, however, teams are allowed to spread the bonus out over two seasons. So, you only get the hit of the bonus due in that year rather than the total hit. Now, let's assume a player had 3 years remaining on a deal where the bonus was prorated at $4 million a season. So that's $12 million. Even though the bonus is prorated at $4 million per season, $6 million would be charged to the cap since you can only spread it out over two seasons. I hope that makes sense.

But the thing is, if I actually go by the numbers that Mike Triplett supplied earlier this off-season (see New Orleans Saints' defensive salary-cap figures for 2013 | NOLA.com), we would save around $24.05 million.

--Will Smith-saves us $11.1 million (cap figure: $14.5 million minus the prorated bonus of $6.8 million split over 2013 and 2014)

--Jonathan Vilma-saves us $6 million (cap figure: $8.6 million minus $2.6 million prorated bonus for 2013)

--Roman Harper-saves us $5.35 million (cap figure: $7.1 million minus the prorated bonus of $3.5 million, which would be split over 2013 and 2014)

--Will Herring-saves us $1.6 million (cap figure: $1.9 million minus prorated bonus)

 

[RockyMtnSaint]

Subtract the prorated signing bonus (which in the case of Smith, Vilma, and Harper would be charged over two seasons) from the total cap figure. To be clear, you do not have to worry about dividing the bonus posted on this site into two seasons because they have already done it for you. For instance, Roman Harper has $3.5 million in terms of his prorated bonus to be divided over this upcoming season and next. But the site has already listed his bonus as $1.75 million for this season. In years past, if a player was cut, his entire remaining bonus would accelerate against the cap. Nowadays, however, teams are allowed to spread the bonus out over two seasons. So, you only get the hit of the bonus due in that year rather than the total hit. Now, let's assume a player had 3 years remaining on a deal where the bonus was prorated at $4 million a season. So that's $12 million. Even though the bonus is prorated at $4 million per season, $6 million would be charged to the cap since you can only spread it out over two seasons. I hope that makes sense.

That makes perfect sense but I wasn't aware that you could spread the cap hit for the prorated signing bonus over two years. That's the piece I was missing. Brings up another question though. What good is the dead money column?

 

[demented]

Not to go against the grain but I believe the way Pierre Thomas' contract was structured, we could cut him and save an additional 2 million this year. Not that Thomas isn't worth 2 mil to someone but we've got equivalent talent that is cheaper on the roster.

 

[RockyMtnSaint]

It's 2.5 million and there's no way I'd get rid of PT. We need all the running backs we can get. 2.5 million is cheap for what we get out of him and at that position you need depth and versatility.