School Shooting in Tennessee (6 killed incl. 3 children) (1 Viewer)

[brandon8283]

Self-defense was the most popular reason for owning an AR-15.

(i.e. killing people)

Other popular answers included recreation,

(i.e. practicing killing people)

target shooting

(i.e. practicing killing people)

hunting

(i.e. yea sure buddy)

some pointed to owning an AR-15 as their Second Amendment right.

(i.e. their right to overthrow the government by killing people)

 

[brandon8283]

Here are the facts:
1) The cartels already have an established pipeline for moving guns across the border

For obtaining guns, not sending them back. The cartels have their own use for guns, and it's not for selling.

2) Even with all the guns manufactured here, they are already tons of guns being smuggled that are manufactured outside of the US

No there aren't. The links you posted showed 30,000 Chinese weapons over the course of 20 years as compared to 13 Million guns manufactured right here in one year. To make it even more clear, over the last 20 years, the US has manufactured around 134 Million guns. This means that the Chinese guns you linked make up approximately .02% of the guns in this country. Not 2%. Two hundredths of one percent.

So is it that you think that this will magically go away if we stop manufacturing them? Or that this smuggling won't increase when demand goes up? Please provide some actual facts to back that opinion up

I don't think it matters in the grand scheme of things whether it goes away or not, because it's statistically insignificant. Let's say demand increases 100x after we stop manufacturing. Guess what? We're still down 98% compared to the number of guns we manufacture ourselves.

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

Until the 2A is altered or eliminated, you're not going to get support from gun owners on banning guns. I do think you might get enough on board with an assault weapons ban, which I think the previous iteration was fairly effective.

The same applies with banning the manufacture of guns. The courts would strike that down in short order unless the 2A is modified or eliminated. And I don't see gun owners supporting that.

Regardless whether you agree with them or not, you'll need buy in from gun owners to see laws passed increasing the regulation of firearms. Nothing is gonna happen without building bridges and meeting them halfway. Maybe over time, you get more buy in from more gun owners.

I didn't say anything about banning guns in general. I said ban the AR15 and it's like.

I carried the M16. Most of the time I carried, and used it, it was on semi not full auto. The AR15 is an M16 on semi. Civilians shouldn't be allowed to have one. It's a combat weapon designed for a firefight. You want to defend yourself get a Ruger GP100 in .357.

 

[Dago]

For obtaining guns, not sending them back. The cartels have their own use for guns, and it's not for selling.


No there aren't. The links you posted showed 30,000 Chinese weapons over the course of 20 years as compared to 13 Million guns manufactured right here in one year. To make it even more clear, over the last 20 years, the US has manufactured around 134 Million guns. This means that the Chinese guns you linked make up approximately .02% of the guns in this country. Not 2%. Two hundredths of one percent.


I don't think it matters in the grand scheme of things whether it goes away or not, because it's statistically insignificant. Let's say demand increases 100x after we stop manufacturing. Guess what? We're still down 98% compared to the number of guns we manufacture ourselves.

So smuggling only works in one direction?

 

[sfidc3]

Exactly. I'm not even going to argue it anymore.

Yup, now the cartels and Chinese are going to take up the slack, except someone arguing about the cartels/Mexico appears to not even read the article that says the US is the supplier, not the other way around.....

Again, I have heard no sound/rational/sensible argument supporting the notion that it's just a great idea for citizens to be able to own automatic or semi-automatic weapons.....and the data is very contrary to their argument....so you get dozens of whataboutisms.....total and utter BS....

 

[DavidM]

Choke the supply and it doesn't matter what the demand is. "We need to keep assault rifles legal to keep prices low for cartels" is dumb. DUMB.

Yeah, it's been decades of what-ifs and what-abouts that has brought us to this point of kids being slaughtered in schools on a regular basis.

When I think of the urgency of gun reform and regulations, I'm reminded of this:

"The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago. The second best time is now."

 

[Dago]

Yup, now the cartels and Chinese are going to take up the slack, except someone arguing about the cartels/Mexico appears to not even read the article that says the US is the supplier, not the other way around.....

Again, I have heard no sound/rational/sensible argument supporting the notion that it's just a great idea for citizens to be able to own automatic or semi-automatic weapons.....and the data is very contrary to their argument....so you get dozens of whataboutisms.....total and utter BS....

Have you ever got to watch someone put a gun against your wife's head in your own home and look at you and tell you they are going to blow her brains out? I heard them come in and didn't have the means to protect me and mine

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

Have you ever got to watch someone put a gun against your wife's head in your own home and look at you and tell you they are going to blow her brains out? I heard them come in and didn't have the means to protect me and mine

And you think only an assault weapon would have protected you and yours in that situation? Any number of sidearms, or a shotgun, would have done the job.

 

[Dago]

And you think only an assault weapon would have protected you and yours in that situation? Any number of sidearms, or a shotgun, would have done the job.

In the post I quoted, you stated "Again, I have heard no sound/rational/sensible argument supporting the notion that it's just a great idea for citizens to be able to own automatic or semi-automatic weapons"

Aren't most sidearms semi-automatic weapons?

Edit: I looked at one of your previous posts and you were specifying AR-15s. Perhaps you forgot to specify that in the post I quoted and, if so, I retract my response

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

In the post I quoted, you stated "Again, I have heard no sound/rational/sensible argument supporting the notion that it's just a great idea for citizens to be able to own automatic or semi-automatic weapons"

Aren't most sidearms a semi-automatic weapons?

I never said anything about citizens not owning semi-automatic weapons in general. I said you should ban semi auto assualt weapons like the AR15.

 

[Dago]

I never said anything about citizens not owning semi-automatic weapons in general. I said you should ban semi auto assualt weapons like the AR15.

You literally said it wasn't a good idea for citizens to own automatic OR semi-automatic weapons without specifying type in the post I quoted.

I edited my post because I saw in one of your previous posts that you were specifying AR-15s

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

You literally said it wasn't a good idea for citizens to own automatic OR semi-automatic weapons without specifying type in the post I quoted.

I edited my post because I saw in one of your previous posts that you were specifying AR-15s

That wasn't me amigo.

 

[Dago]

That wasn't me amigo.

Bleh....SNAFU all around then. I was replying to someone who made a blanket statement about all firearms and when you responded I just thought it was the same person.

No, I wasn't saying anything about your point regarding AR-15s

 

[BullSheetBuddha]

Bleh....SNAFU all around then. I was replying to someone who made a blanket statement about all firearms and when you responded I just thought it was the same person.

No, I wasn't saying anything about your point regarding AR-15s

No problem. It's hard to follow. Further, I suspect but don't know for sure that the poster you quoted may have also been thinking of semi-auto assault weapons as opposed to a Glock or something.

 

[Dago]

No problem. It's hard to follow. Further, I suspect but don't know for sure, that the poster you quoted may have also been thinking of semi-auto assault weapons as opposed to a Glock or something.

That's certainly possible and, like i said, I retract that response if that is the case. I'm not against regulations...just looking at things 'how they are' currently, it is damned inexcusable that the background check system is so horrible....Lord knows our government seems to be able to spy on us whenever they want. I'm not claiming it's a conspiracy or anything....I don't really care about the reason....it's just inexcusable.

Also, I saw one state recently enacted a law to hold parents responsible if their kid commits a crime with their guns (provided they aren't properly secured) and I have no issue with that. Owning a gun is a choice and so is not being responsible with it and if that results in a crime they should absolutely share the penalty. I don't think anybody in here isn't for at least most of those 'common sense' regulations as well as greater enforcement and penalties for existing laws