School Shooting in Tennessee (6 killed incl. 3 children) (1 Viewer)

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I consider myself both progressive and a supporter of the 2nd amendment.

Without going into too much detail, the aftermath of Katrina solidified my belief that we should be allowed to own semi-automatic handguns and rifles for home protection.

I am against banning "assault rifles" which are not largely different than hunting rifles, except in appearance. Likewise, semi-auto handguns (which actually are used in mass shootings significantly more often than assault rifles) should not be banned either.

However, we should absolutely take a look at reasonable targeted regulations that could help prevent more mass casualty shootings.

I believe that similar to a car, which when mishandled can cause great bodily harm or death, guns should be licensed and registered. In order to be able to access your guns, you have to maintain proper licensing, insurance, and be able to display knowledge of safety and proper securing of the firearm. I believe mental health screenings should be part of the licensing process.

Reasoned, pragmatic legislation could be introduced that's not a drastic overreach or knee-jerk reaction, and maintain the 2nd amendment rights granted to our citizens.

However, the NRA lobby has a stronghold on the conservatives in our country and any and all pragmatic legislation is met with hyperbolic "they want to take your guns" rhetoric.

The problems surrounding guns in America is a microcosm of the problem of partisan politics in America. Partisans have vilified "the other side" for so long, that there is virtually no one working with the other party to make reasonable compromises for progress for the citizens.
 
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The conversation is a distraction from the fact that kids are dead and too many people have access to the weapons that cause the deaths.
Well that's just asinine. If my responding with an opinion about the suggestion of banning or ceasing the manufacturer of firearms is a distraction from the event, then whoever brought it up in the first place is at fault.

Unless your idea of distracting from the OP is just anybody who happens to disagree with you which I think is probably your thought process
 
I consider myself both progressive and a supporter of the 2nd amendment.

Without going into too much detail, the aftermath of Katrina solidified my belief that we should be allowed to own semi-automatic handguns and rifles for home protection.

I am against banning "assault rifles" which are not largely different than hunting rifles, except in appearance. Likewise, semi-auto handguns (which actually is used in mass shootings significantly more than assault rifles) should not be banned either.

However, we should absolutely take a look at reasonable targeted regulations that could help prevent more mass casualty shootings.

I believe that similar to a car, when mishandled can cause great bodily harm or death, guns should be licensed and registered. In order to be able to access your guns, you have to maintain proper licensing, insurance, and be able to display knowledge of safety and proper securing of the firearm. I believe mental health screenings should be part of the licensing process.

Reasoned, pragmatic legislation could be introduced that's not a drastic overreach or knee-jerk reaction, and maintain the 2nd amendment rights granted to our citizens.

However, the NRA lobby has a stronghold on the conservatives in our country and any and all pragmatic legislation is met with hyperbolic "they want to take your guns" rhetoric.

The problems surrounding guns in America is a microcosm of the problem of partisan politics in America. Partisans have vilified "the other side" for so long, that there is virtually no one working with the other party to make reasonable compromises for progress for the citizens.
doing these things would also be progress. Though i still think assault rifles should be banned. Still, progress here.
 
I consider myself both progressive and a supporter of the 2nd amendment.

Without going into too much detail, the aftermath of Katrina solidified my belief that we should be allowed to own semi-automatic handguns and rifles for home protection.

I am against banning "assault rifles" which are not largely different than hunting rifles, except in appearance. Likewise, semi-auto handguns (which actually is used in mass shootings significantly more than assault rifles) should not be banned either.

However, we should absolutely take a look at reasonable targeted regulations that could help prevent more mass casualty shootings.

I believe that similar to a car, when mishandled can cause great bodily harm or death, guns should be licensed and registered. In order to be able to access your guns, you have to maintain proper licensing, insurance, and be able to display knowledge of safety and proper securing of the firearm. I believe mental health screenings should be part of the licensing process.

Reasoned, pragmatic legislation could be introduced that's not a drastic overreach or knee-jerk reaction, and maintain the 2nd amendment rights granted to our citizens.

However, the NRA lobby has a stronghold on the conservatives in our country and any and all pragmatic legislation is met with hyperbolic "they want to take your guns" rhetoric.

The problems surrounding guns in America is a microcosm of the problem of partisan politics in America. Partisans have vilified "the other side" for so long, that there is virtually no one working with the other party to make reasonable compromises for progress for the citizens.

I'm not sold on the semi-auto rifle for home protection. If the bad guy is 100 yards away, it's not really home protection. If he's in your driveway or house, a pump-action shotgun with buckshot will put him down with even more finality than a rifle.
 
Look, my point is this. If you all agree things need to be done, don't sit here and argue about what can be done is too little to make an impact or could still leave avenues for other problems to occur. Shift you're way of thinking about it. Start from the point that action needs to happen now. Changing the starting point to that from arguments that change is impossible or it won't be enough is the first step to real progress. I think the stakes are worth it.
 
This is what you don't get....yes we have the supply currently.

The conversation was about what happens if that is eliminated or severely curtailed


I don't understand the pushback you're getting on this. It's just being aware of the law of unintended consequences.

"Ok, so we've banned the sale and manufacture of semiauto rifles in America, now what?"
Well, people are going to still want them. Therefore someone will attempt to provide them.


Africa is hip-deep in automatic weapons. What if the suppliers there discovered that Americans will pay three times what an African militiaman can pay? If we don't at least consider these possibilities, we might wind up trading semi-auto AR15's for full-auto AK47's.
 
I don't understand the pushback you're getting on this. It's just being aware of the law of unintended consequences.

"Ok, so we've banned the sale and manufacture of semiauto rifles in America, now what?"
Well, people are going to still want them. Therefore someone will attempt to provide them.


Africa is hip-deep in automatic weapons. What if the suppliers there discovered that Americans will pay three times what an African militiaman can pay? If we don't at least consider these possibilities, we might wind up trading semi-auto AR15's for full-auto AK47's.
If we ban assault weapons America will become full of fully automatic weapons? Absolutely ridiculous.
 
I don't understand the pushback you're getting on this. It's just being aware of the law of unintended consequences.

"Ok, so we've banned the sale and manufacture of semiauto rifles in America, now what?"
Well, people are going to still want them. Therefore someone will attempt to provide them.


Africa is hip-deep in automatic weapons. What if the suppliers there discovered that Americans will pay three times what an African militiaman can pay? If we don't at least consider these possibilities, we might wind up trading semi-auto AR15's for full-auto AK47's.
Drugs are illegal. People still find ways to buy and use them.

I don't see this being any different if certain guns were outlawed. The illegal arms market will skyrocket.
 
I didn't say anything about banning guns in general. I said ban the AR15 and it's like.

I carried the M16. Most of the time I carried, and used it, it was on semi not full auto. The AR15 is an M16 on semi. Civilians shouldn't be allowed to have one. It's a combat weapon designed for a firefight. You want to defend yourself get a Ruger GP100 in .357.
You want to defend your home. Step one is getting a dog. They'll chase most criminals away with their bark.

Step two . A shotgun is far more effective than any handgun.

My brother in law ( yeah I got a few) was a member of the S.W.A.T team who told me this info years ago. When
they engaged in close quarter combat, a sawed off 12 gauge was the weapon of choice. The reason is you won't
miss your target.
 
You want to defend your home. Step one is getting a dog. They'll chase most criminals away with their bark.

Step two . A shotgun is far more effective than any handgun.

My brother in law ( yeah I got a few) was a member of the S.W.A.T team who told me this info years ago. When
they engaged in close quarter combat, a sawed off 12 gauge was the weapon of choice. The reason is you won't
miss your target.
Agree. Get a dog and a shotgun.
 
I don't understand the pushback you're getting on this. It's just being aware of the law of unintended consequences.

"Ok, so we've banned the sale and manufacture of semiauto rifles in America, now what?"
Well, people are going to still want them. Therefore someone will attempt to provide them.


Africa is hip-deep in automatic weapons. What if the suppliers there discovered that Americans will pay three times what an African militiaman can pay? If we don't at least consider these possibilities, we might wind up trading semi-auto AR15's for full-auto AK47's.
Other countries with strict gun laws, presumably with people who would be interested in buying them, are not awash in black market arms.

They just have fewer guns, and fewer gun deaths.

If you reduce access to guns, you reduce gun deaths. Period.
 
The idea of banning AR style weapons (I'm not going to argue semantics, we all know by now what is meant) is that, projecting out into the future, not everybody who wants to go on mass killing sprees will as easily be able to get their hands on the guns that inflict the most carnage, the fastest. By reducing the ease of access, you reduce the number of instances those types of weapons would be used. It won't stop determined shooters, and it won't prevent some people from getting their hands on those same weapons by other means - in home, relatives, friends, theft - but if we can start to lessen the ability for people to legally obtain these types of weapons, we begin to diminish those opportunities. A ban creates a new obstacle, which is incremental progress.

Somebody going on a killing spree with handguns or lower capacity, slower firing rifles or shotguns, at least gives more people a better chance to survive. Split seconds can matter in terms of being able to flee/shelter, and fewer rounds/rate of fire/differences in caliber can improve the chances of surviving wounds. This also improves the odds for police in mass shooter scenarios. If we could reduce AR shooting sprees at an improving rate over decades, that would be a lot of lives saved.

And that's just a single potential step in what needs to be a comprehensive effort to reduce gun violence. We're stuck with guns as a part of American life but we don't have to stay stuck in the mindset that we can't, or shouldn't, do anything. There aren't any realistic actions we can take that will make a significant immediate impact, so we have to start thinking about the long game and begin moving in a better direction for future generations.
 
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