Sean Payton and that timeout at 2:15 (1 Viewer)

[darkhornet]

This thread is ridiculous, in my opinion.

It's 2nd and 12 at the point of the TO. They pick up 11 on a throw to Cruz and he goes out of bounds, stops the clock again. The pick up the first on a slant to Shepard then the 2 minute warning happens.

If the 3rd down throw is broken up, which is what you're banking on, the time out is genius, as you get the ball with 2 time outs and 2 minutes. The time out was not the problem. The failure to get a defensive stop was.

Let's play your scenario out without him calling the timeout. First down play takes us to the two minute warning. Second down play takes us to about 1:53. Third down incompletion brings us to about 1:45 with all three of our timeouts. The gain for calling the time out was not great enough to warrant the risk.

However, we are also disregarding the fact that if the Saints have all of there timeouts still, we're forcing the Giants into a lot tougher of decisions down the stretch. Do they stay aggressive, knowing we have timeouts in our pocket and Drew Brees waiting on the sideline? Or do they stay inbounds and play the clock in an attempt to take away Drew's chance to hit the field? The whole game changed with those timeouts.

 

[krazy9000]

To before the 2 minute warning is almost always the correct call. Make these last seconds before an automatic stop last much longer. Arguing against the usage of a to there is pure idiocy.

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[MSUSousaphone]

You get an automatic timeout at the 2 min warning.

So at 2:15 its 1st & 10 (if you make the timeout)

At 2:00 it's 2nd and 8


If you don't make the timeout before the 2 minute warning:

At 2:00 it's 1st and 10

At 1:50 it's 2nd and 8


So you actually save about 8 to 15 seconds depending on the length of the play.

Yes.

Do people not understand the two minute warning?

 

[St.Fury]

You get an automatic timeout at the 2 min warning.

So at 2:15 its 1st & 10 (if you make the timeout)

At 2:00 it's 2nd and 8


If you don't make the timeout before the 2 minute warning:

At 2:00 it's 1st and 10

At 1:50 it's 2nd and 8


So you actually save about 8 to 15 seconds depending on the length of the play.

Right. You're actually forcing them to run an extra play before the 2-minute warning, which automatically stops the clock. If you defense holds, which is what Sean was gambling on, you actually save time by using the timeout like he did. It was the right call.

 

[RetroMcBananaFace]

taking the timeout before the two-minute warning is absolutely the correct move in any circumstance when you are behind on the scoreboard. Period. End of discussion.

 

[Igordão]

taking the timeout before the two-minute warning is absolutely the correct move in any circumstance when you are behind on the scoreboard. Period. End of discussion.

We were not behind. And that's why he should not take the time out there. Once the giants get in field goal range they would just run three times and kick and that's when we needed those timeouts. It's not about how much time was saved, it's about having some way of stopping the clock if the giants reached field goal range.

 

[RetroMcBananaFace]

We were not behind. And that's why he should not take the time out there. Once the giants get in field goal range they would just run three times and kick and that's when we needed those timeouts. It's not about how much time was saved, it's about having some way of stopping the clock if the giants reached field goal range.

Stand corrected about being behind, you're right. But still, it's a gamble on his team generating a favorable outcome.

I'd rather have a coach that makes moves assuming his team will succeed in x situation than have one making moves that assume only bad things will happen. You rarely come out ahead when you're playing not to lose.

We didn't lose the game because of timeouts, we lost it because the defense wasn't able to get off the field in that situation.

 

[saintskip]

I felt that the TO was a stupid decision in real time. Knew it would come back to bite us. This is the same team we have seen the past few years. When the offense plays well, the defense is terrible. When the defense balls out, the offense cant gain a yard. The problem is not personnel, its not NFL sanctions, its not bad contracts, its not drafting.....it's Sean Payton. He thinks he's a rock star. Too many HBO series cameo's and NFL Ticket Exchange commercials and singing on stage with his country music buddies. This team is never prepared and always out coached. Do you realize since 2014 Sean has been embarrassed by the:

Lions (twice) 19-16 (.543 winning percentage)
Cowboys 18-18 (.500)
49ers 14-20 (.412)
Redskins 13-20 (.394)
Bucs 9-25 (.265)
Titans 6-28 (.176)
Browns 10-24 (.294)

The Browns! Enough said. We make this guy a top paid coach and he loses to teams making top 5 draft picks every year. Give me a break.

 

[bclemms]

There's absolutely no guarantee we ever see the ball again of that TO isn't taken there.

The simple fact is, you knock down 1 of 2 3rd down completions and the TO saved precious seconds. The TO was the right call, we just didn't get stops.

We forced a punt or created a turnover once in the second half. In 5 drives, the Giants scored on 4 of them. That's an 80% success rate. You go ahead and bet against 80%. Want even worse odds? You are betting on the defense knocking down 1 or 2 3rd down completions. Well, we had 4 passes defended on 41 pass attempts, less than 10% of passes.

So, if you can make one bet and have to put all your money on a single bet. Are you going to bet against 80% or do you think it's more likely Brees can drive us down for a game winning or tying FG? I put his odds at doing that much higher than 20%.

Reality though, it doesn't matter. If we had timeouts they would have scored a TD. If we stopped them for a FG we would have missed ours.

I'm done arguing this one because we were extremely lucky to even have a chance at winning that game.

 

[NeverGiveUP2]

Sean has a habit of calling timeouts way too prematurely. However, I can't remember a case where it cost us as classically as this one. I'll start with what I believe he was going for: He wanted to get the ball back in Brees's hands with as much time as possible.

This IS the strategy. After that time out you still had three clock stops including the 2 minute warning. He was depending on the defense to hold and give DB the ball with 1 time out and over a minute and a half. We would all feel confident in at least a FG in that situation. If you don't take the TO you give the ball to DB with 2 TO's and maybe 1:15. I think with DB he wants the time trusting DB to manage the clock. With another QB you may prefer the additional TO

 

[Igordão]

This IS the strategy. After that time out you still had three clock stops including the 2 minute warning. He was depending on the defense to hold and give DB the ball with 1 time out and over a minute and a half. We would all feel confident in at least a FG in that situation. If you don't take the TO you give the ball to DB with 2 TO's and maybe 1:15. I think with DB he wants the time trusting DB to manage the clock. With another QB you may prefer the additional TO

The problem with that strategy is basically saying to the giants: "if you get a first down all you need to do is get in field goal range and you win the game". Much better little time to Drew make something than no time at all that was what taking the timeouts led to.

 

[Kegger]

Option 1: Call timeout at 2:15. Opposition gets 1 more play, then they hit the 2 minute warning. Clock is at 2:00.

Option 2: Let clock run down to 2:00. Opposition gets 1 play, then you call timeout. Clock is now at 1:50.

In both cases, the opposition has run the same number of plays. If you are trying to conserve the clock, option 1 is the superior choice. Payton made the right call, all you haters can calm down.

 

[insidejob]

We forced a punt or created a turnover once in the second half. In 5 drives, the Giants scored on 4 of them. That's an 80% success rate. You go ahead and bet against 80%. Want even worse odds? You are betting on the defense knocking down 1 or 2 3rd down completions. Well, we had 4 passes defended on 41 pass attempts, less than 10% of passes.

So, if you can make one bet and have to put all your money on a single bet. Are you going to bet against 80% or do you think it's more likely Brees can drive us down for a game winning or tying FG? I put his odds at doing that much higher than 20%.

Reality though, it doesn't matter. If we had timeouts they would have scored a TD. If we stopped them for a FG we would have missed ours.

I'm done arguing this one because we were extremely lucky to even have a chance at winning that game.

What 4 of 5 second half drives did the Giants score on? Or 4 of any 5 drives? They only scored on 3 of 12 offensive drives in the whole game.

They only scored 4 times the whole game. One scoop and score on the blocked TD in the second quarter and then three field goals in the second half.

I'm confused. Our piss poor third down conversion rate on offense is what lost us this game. 3/13 on third down ain't gonna cut it. What's that? 23%? Yeah, can't win like that.

 

[Igordão]

Option 1: Call timeout at 2:15. Opposition gets 1 more play, then they hit the 2 minute warning. Clock is at 2:00.

Option 2: Let clock run down to 2:00. Opposition gets 1 play, then you call timeout. Clock is now at 1:50.

In both cases, the opposition has run the same number of plays. If you are trying to conserve the clock, option 1 is the superior choice. Payton made the right call, all you haters can calm down.

If the saints were losing and giants were just playing conservative to eat time that would be the right call. But they were tied and wanted a field goal.

That's the problem. You save the timeouts and in case they reach field goal range you may have a chance to stop the clock three times before their field goal. If you have used the timeouts before, like Payton did, they run three times and kick the field goal with no time left to Brees do anything.

 

[Optimistic Ozzy]

You dont call a timeout after first down with 2:15 remaining. Its just dumb. You trade that 15 seconds to make sure the team doesnt pick up thevfirst on 2nd down so you can still stop the clock even if they pick up the first. Should seem like common sense.

It is. But some people (mostly coaches), will try and convince you and I otherwise.