Sean Payton has really grown! (1 Viewer)

[LSSpam]

BTW, taking the Dolphins game out

Drew Brees has very similiar completion percentage, TD-to-INT ratio, first down percentage, sacks, and YPP in the first half as compared to the second half.

Which means our passing game does not get more effective as the game goes on and we run more.

And yet the run game significantly improves from the first half to the second.

Fascinating stuff

 

[diat150]

Hahahaha

He has 81 completions in the first half.

He has 121 attempts in the first half.

121 - 17 = 104/5 = 20.4 attempts

Let's put this in big bold letters for you
20.4 attempts to 13 rushes in the first half

Splice it differently, that's 39% rushing to 61% passing in the first half. The ratio and number of offensive snaps is exactly what I would have expected. Indeed, it's what anyone who actually watches the game would have expected.

Someone who actually though we averaged 12 pass attempts and 25 snaps total in the first half the first 5 games of the season......

I like you diat, but this should end your participation in this thread

yeah I just caught my mistake. trying to multitask at work messed me up. but it is actually 19 if we go with 24 pass attempts in the first half like what was stated just now.

regardless, we didnt run the ball enough and it made a difference in how miami attacked brees. we have seen this same scenario play out before, so it shouldnt surprise anyone.

 

[tanis136]

Galbreath,

I think you're so geared up for a fight that you continue to miss the "simple" premise of my argument. Let me break it down as much as I can and then I'll let you have your shine for as long as you want it.

I agree that Brees is the greatest QB in the league and I personally would not want anyone else handling the reigns. However, this is a team game and Brees can't do it all by himself. We as Saints fans have witnessed this over the past 3 years.

After establishing that even Brees, in all his greatness can't do it all by himself we must look to the other components of the team(I.e. The defense, the running game and the coaching, which includes the play-calling).

Thanks to Payton bringing in GW we have addressed our D. Thanks to Thomas, Bell and even Bush we have the weapons for the running game. The only thing that concerns me are "mindsets" like yourself, which states that b/c Drew is the best player we can only win with the ball in his hands. If this was tennis, golf or any individual sport I would agree. Football, however, is a team sport where u might have to rely on role players to let your star player shine.

Even Michael Jordan had to realize this in order to win. Yes Paxton and BJ Armstrong benefited from the double teams of Jordan but if Jordan never gave them the ball when they were wide open for the 3 pointer he would have never got rid of the double teams and ultimately win the big one.

In conclusion, as a coach you need to recognize that a man (in this case the running game) is open early in the game and give him the ball for the benefit of the team as well as your star player.

Love Drew. Love Payton but I love the overall success of my team more!

 

[GoldRush26]

Meh, people are so fickle on here. You all that are saying that he is grown will be hurling expletives at him next week just like this week

You just have to take the good with the bad with him. He's not a perfect coach and he will always have a tendency to call those "cute" plays. That's just something that we have to take with him.

 

[Galbreath34]

I just think the premise that it's necessary to run more in the first half is pretty well flawed by the evidence of every game we've played so far this year. The pressure on Brees at the beginning of the game had little to do with run v. pass it had to do with two weeks of prep of a new look for the Dolphins having 1-2 guys in 3 point stances sending 5 or more guys on more than half the plays. They outrisked the Jets in blitzes that were often up the gut and would have stifled the run. I can just as easily say that us running 8 of our first 10 plays for 2 yards a pop would have led to the same misplaced criticism that the type of play called was the "key" factor. We all miss Madden and the old school "run first to set up the pass", but the reality is that we quite successfully have been doing it the other way around, throwing 3 times for every two rushes in the first half, then grinding out the win once we are ahead.

I don't question anyone's love for the team. I just question quoting global totals for run v pass for the last 4 years and saying that we run first now is completely missing the real data. The only reason I took exception or jumped in is that you tried to use that flawed logic to attack a well-known well-informed rational poster.

What in the world are you talking about!!!?

2008: 2 games over 40 points
8-8 record
Passed: 636 times
Ran: 398 times

2007: 1 game over 40 points
7-9 record
Passed: 652 times
Ran 392

2006: 1 game over 40 points
10-6 record
Passed 580
Rushed 472
Playoff Games: Philly (passed 32 times and ran 32 times)
Chicago (passed 49 times and ran 11 times)

2009: 4 games over 40 points already
6-0 record
Passed 197 times
Rushed 201 times.

So you are completely incorrect St. Widge... When we don't rely solely on the pass and when we incorporate both philosophies of running or passing to setup a balanced offensive then we win. That is what works not the pass philosophy.

Do your homework b4 you ramble!!!!

Since then, you've failed to counter or acknowledge the data presented to show that your logic was flawed beyond belief.

We do pass 50% more than we throw in almost every 1st half of every game this season (I think 60/40 is about as low as it's ever gotten this season for the 1st half). We run out the clock with more runs, hence the seeming "balance" you quote.

 

[St. Widge]

its the lack of runs that is the problem. if you cant decipher how much better this offense is when they attempt to run the ball on your own then I certainly wont convince you. the proof is in the pudding.

I think I decipher things fine on my own and my conclusion based on even the stuff you provided is that we aren't really doing that much different in the first half of games than we did last year and that the biggest difference is that we are better at running the ball this year than last year and we have a better defense which allows us to run the ball more. The mere fact that we run the ball more is not what made this offense go from great to almost perfect, it's the fact that we are running the ball more efficiently and are able to stop the other team that has allowed us to be more balanced. If you can't decipher that on your own, the I certainly won't convince you.

It wasn't that we ran the ball 4 fewer times in the first half of this game then we did in the first 5 games that made the difference. What made the difference is that Brees was off all day, the offensive line and RB's were confused in their blocking assignments, the defense played horrible and the Dolphins came ready to play. 4 or 6 more running plays would not have changed that.

Yes, the offense looks even better this year because we can run the ball effectively. But, it looks better because we run the ball effectively not simply because we do run. Moreover, that improvement just means that we went from having a great offense to having a nearly perfect offense.

 

[lapaz]

Payton AND Williams can beat you with his'ns or they can beat you with yours'ns.

 

[Slidell Mike]

Sean Payton has improved as a coach since 2006. In my mind, there is no doubt. Quote statistics all you want. Bottomline, Payton went into this game with a mindset of attacking a young, suspect secondary. What he found was that we were indeed flat, our offensive line play was very poor (especially on the edges with Bushrod and Stinchcomb being blown up play after play) and Miami's defensive front was hyped and playing out of their minds. So, the inital gameplan was not working. In years past, being down by 2 TDs, Payton would have continued to go with the pass and continue to play right into the Dolphin's hands. However, he knew he need to establish the run after the fumble by Brees on 3 straight passing plays early in the 3rd quarter. So, he went to his running game, brought in Mike Bell, and pushed his O-line to play with a more aggressive attitude to wake them up.

Payton is by no means perfect, no coach is. But I guarantee you, there are not 5 active head coaches in the NFL that are better than Payton and I wouldn't trade him for any other head coach because I love his aggressive play calling.

 

[retthib]

Do you guys realize that the coaches come up w/ a game plan during the week and that is whats practiced. Obviously SP thought he could spread them out and take advantage of the CBs. With the way our o-line blocked against the NYG, seems like a decent gameplan.

You cant game plan for the fire MIA came out with. Coming off a bye at home, well rested, MIA came to get after Drew.

You dont abandon what you practiced all week just because it isnt initially working. Thats what 2nd half adjustments are for.

Luckily we have a player like Vilma who started making plays in the 1st half and helped keep the score where it was.

Obviously in the 2nd half he started using more slants in the running game opening up the cutback lanes and more max protections in the pasing game.

Considering we were moving the ball, using the pass, just fine our opening drive until the FS penalty, it's pure specualtion to say the running game would of been more successful.

Not being able to win that challenge changed the complexion of the game big time. We're not pinned at the goalline if MIA doesnt get the extra 30 yds of field position after converting that 1st down. Not pinned back maybe we run more & break one, but anyway you dice it, it's speculation, IMO.