Sean Payton must take note from Spurs Popovich (1 Viewer)

[rippa]

Popovich on his teams inconsistent play.

""I don't remember playing tonight. No Knute Rockne speeches. It's your job. If you're a plumber and you don't do your job, you don't get any work. I don't think a plumber needs a pep talk. A doctor botches operations, and he's not a doctor anymore. If you're a basketball player, you come ready. It's called maturity. It's your job."

Hey SP- take notes. Its a maturity issue in the locker room. Deliver that message

 

[SweetT]

Pop is a damn Jedi. He's a rare breed, just like Belicheck (NFL) or Saban (NCAA).

 

[Domeination]

Is it just the players who might have a maturity issue? What about Payton?

 

[Swimmer]

Pop is a damn Jedi. He's a rare breed, just like Belicheck (NFL) or Saban (NCAA).

I've been a Spurs fan ever since moving to Austin. The owner is a classy and smart business man. He has a 1st rate FO with shared power. The players love playing for Pop. The FO takes no chances on primma donna FAs. They bring-in players who fit an unselfish mode, team oriented and Pop gets his players to do what most NBA players dislike, play unrelenting defense the entire game.

Yes - this is a model of a great franchise which until about a decade ago was small market like New Orleans.

Anyone think we could get Pop to coach the Saints

EDIT: The family decided they all wanted to go see the Spurs play on Christmas day. No turkey, but hot dogs, nachos and expensive beer!

 

[Mr. Sparkle]

I've typed this up a few different times but never posted it, but here goes:

Around 2012, right around when Bountygate got cranked up, a mutual friend of a Saints front office person told me about how the Saints' management team (Loomis, Payton, etc) view themselves internally - it was basically as the "NFC Patriots." They viewed themselves as one of the elite franchises in the League, and that their way of doing business was superior to the average NFL team. You could see some of this on the field, and in how Payton cornholed the local media, and in many ways I think it was a good thing - (being confident leads to things like Ambush, though it can also lead to a lot of blown up Josh Hill End Arounds).

In the context of Bountygate, they literally thought there was no way that the NFL would mess with them because 'We're the Saints,' thinking they were now among the teams like the Packers, Cowboys, Steelers, Giants, etc., that run the league, and there was NO WAY that the league would or could mess with them. This seems laughable now of course, and even then it was a stretch, but we were coming off the '09-'11 run and seemed to have a bright future.

Obviously, we all found out that the NFL viewed the Saints about the same way they viewed the XFL, CTE research or any other entity that irritates Goodell or his legal team - as an enemy to be discredited, dismantled and blown into space.

Yet as much as Bountygate took its toll on our team, I don't think it ever led to any sort of internal re-evaluation of how the team does things. If anything they seemed to double down on risk-taking in the personnel department, and on the coaching side Payton has taken YOLO to a whole new level.. lets call it Dont Give a [Damn].

Every other year since then we hear about Payton 'getting back to the '06 model' or some such, but then we still go out and lay 3-4 eggs each season where the team looks completely dead on its feet, or hungover from the prior week's "Bat Game."

If Payton really intends to right the ship, he needs to first come to grips with the idea that he is no longer the whiz kid Super Bowl coach, he's really Just a Guy. He's Jeff Fisher. The margin for error is gone. You cant just ignore special teams. You cant just throw your visor on the field and expect a win because its the Lions and we whipped them in 09.

I dont know if he still has it in him to do that kind of work. Much easier to cruise along and figure you're smart enough to figure it out down the road. I hope he has it in him. I dont think he does.

 

[blackadder]

I've typed this up a few different times but never posted it, but here goes:

Around 2012, right around when Bountygate got cranked up, a mutual friend of a Saints front office person told me about how the Saints' management team (Loomis, Payton, etc) view themselves internally - it was basically as the "NFC Patriots." They viewed themselves as one of the elite franchises in the League, and that their way of doing business was superior to the average NFL team. You could see some of this on the field, and in how Payton cornholed the local media, and in many ways I think it was a good thing - (being confident leads to things like Ambush, though it can also lead to a lot of blown up Josh Hill End Arounds).

In the context of Bountygate, they literally thought there was no way that the NFL would mess with them because 'We're the Saints,' thinking they were now among the teams like the Packers, Cowboys, Steelers, Giants, etc., that run the league, and there was NO WAY that the league would or could mess with them. This seems laughable now of course, and even then it was a stretch, but we were coming off the '09-'11 run and seemed to have a bright future.

Obviously, we all found out that the NFL viewed the Saints about the same way they viewed the XFL or any other entity that irritates Goodell or his legal team.

Yet as much as Bountygate took its toll on our team, I don't think it ever led to any sort of internal re-evaluation of how the team does things. If anything they seemed to double down on risk-taking in the personnel department, and on the coaching side Payton has taken YOLO to a whole new level.. lets call it Dont Give a [Damn].

Every other year since then we hear about Payton 'getting back to the '06 model' or some such, but then we still go out and lay 3-4 eggs each season where the team looks completely dead on its feet, or hungover from the prior week's "Bat Game."

If Payton really intends to right the ship, he needs to first come to grips with the idea that he is no longer the whiz kid Super Bowl coach, he's really Just a Guy. He's Jeff Fisher. The margin for error is gone. You cant just ignore special teams. You cant just throw your visor on the field and expect a win because its the Lions and we whipped them in 09.

I dont know if he still has it in him to do that kind of work. Much easier to cruise along and figure you're smart enough to figure it out down the road. I hope he has it in him. I dont think he does.

The bat thing started to bother me after the around the third time in the context of seeing this team be clearly finesse outfit and one of the less physical in the league.

This is a physical contact sport. Every week. Do we only play our best physical football when you trot out the bat? What does that say about other weeks? Should we take a little velocity off the hit?

Things did go to Payton's head there after 2009 and it was known that this thing you describe also cheesed off Goodell, with Payton becoming increasingly arrogant. That's not to say Goodell is in the right. It's more about judgement. If you know the Commissioner is a tool, do you really want to work hard to get on his bad side?

There were lots of other questionable character and attitude things in the mix after 2009 that contributed to the drop off of the teams fortunes, which I hope are all in the rear view mirror. Those were on the leadership too.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

I've typed this up a few different times but never posted it, but here goes:

Around 2012, right around when Bountygate got cranked up, a mutual friend of a Saints front office person told me about how the Saints' management team (Loomis, Payton, etc) view themselves internally - it was basically as the "NFC Patriots." They viewed themselves as one of the elite franchises in the League, and that their way of doing business was superior to the average NFL team. You could see some of this on the field, and in how Payton cornholed the local media, and in many ways I think it was a good thing - (being confident leads to things like Ambush, though it can also lead to a lot of blown up Josh Hill End Arounds).

In the context of Bountygate, they literally thought there was no way that the NFL would mess with them because 'We're the Saints,' thinking they were now among the teams like the Packers, Cowboys, Steelers, Giants, etc., that run the league, and there was NO WAY that the league would or could mess with them. This seems laughable now of course, and even then it was a stretch, but we were coming off the '09-'11 run and seemed to have a bright future.

Obviously, we all found out that the NFL viewed the Saints about the same way they viewed the XFL, CTE research or any other entity that irritates Goodell or his legal team - as an enemy to be discredited, dismantled and blown into space.

Yet as much as Bountygate took its toll on our team, I don't think it ever led to any sort of internal re-evaluation of how the team does things. If anything they seemed to double down on risk-taking in the personnel department, and on the coaching side Payton has taken YOLO to a whole new level.. lets call it Dont Give a [Damn].

Every other year since then we hear about Payton 'getting back to the '06 model' or some such, but then we still go out and lay 3-4 eggs each season where the team looks completely dead on its feet, or hungover from the prior week's "Bat Game."

If Payton really intends to right the ship, he needs to first come to grips with the idea that he is no longer the whiz kid Super Bowl coach, he's really Just a Guy. He's Jeff Fisher. The margin for error is gone. You cant just ignore special teams. You cant just throw your visor on the field and expect a win because its the Lions and we whipped them in 09.

I dont know if he still has it in him to do that kind of work. Much easier to cruise along and figure you're smart enough to figure it out down the road. I hope he has it in him. I dont think he does.

I thank you for the curtain peel back, but I disagree with your take away completely
SP changed everything about his approach post BG and we're just coming out of that
My take was that after a few months of anger, SP completely internalized his punishment (and divorce) and tried to do a reset
He went from preferring brains first players like shanle and vilma to athletic freaks like Stanley Jean baptiste and Ronald Powell and giving JG an extremely long leash
I think bring in Jeff Ireland and bringing DA back was his acknowledging that he way over compensated from his walk in the wilderness

 

[Quiet Storm]

Spurs 13-1 on the road now..they got #JimmyBuckets

 

[Mr. Sparkle]

I thank you for the curtain peel back, but I disagree with your take away completely
SP changed everything about his approach post BG and we're just coming out of that
My take was that after a few months of anger, SP completely internalized his punishment (and divorce) and tried to do a reset
He went from preferring brains first players like shanle and vilma to athletic freaks like Stanley Jean baptiste and Ronald Powell and giving JG an extremely long leash
I think bring in Jeff Ireland and bringing DA back was his acknowledging that he way over compensated from his walk in the wilderness

Re: the draft - Outside of '06 (which was an all-time great draft) I cant see much pattern through all the smoking wreckage.

I do see a change in FA approach - away from the Shanles and Billy Millers and David Pattens to more Home Run swings like Byrd and Browner, and of course, dumping a huge contract on Junior a year before he hit FA. YOLO!

 

[bigcarlittlewill]

We have players with characters, thats all its matters

 

[SuperSaint]

Saints should have to listen to this before every game!

Pop holding his players accountable for loss - ESPN Video

 

[rippa]

Is it just the players who might have a maturity issue? What about Payton?

Exactly and couldn't agree more!

 

[tak]

...and coaches need to do their job with better play-calling, hiring good assistants, etc.

 

[RJ in Lafayette]

Before the Super Bowl year, there was pressure on Payton to win after two straight non-winning seasons. For several reasons--the age and health of Benson, the Super Bowl, the relatively timid media coverage of the team--the same level of pressure has not been placed on Payton and Loomis to produce.

Things are slowly changing. 2017 has to be a big year or else because we don't know how much the physical skills of Brees will have declined after 2017, and without Brees, this is not a good football team.

 

[Swimmer]

Thinking about the post actually brings more clarity to the Saints situation. The Spurs have a top notch FO. Buford is a 1st rate GM. He has 2 assistant GMs. They have a very basketball savvy president and an owner who is sharp.

I was thinking if SP had a similar FO in NO as the Spurs, he may very well have been a much better coach. No savvy GM is going to let SP have control of the defense, special teams and FG kicker. They would have confronted SP about his weaknesses and built a structure of complimentary coaches and scouts to mitigate SPs major weaknesses.

The Saints have had an ownership in chaos, a very old owner, no strong player personnel and coaches GM. Those are major weaknesses we have as an organization versus an elite pro organization like the Spurs