Sean Payton Without Gregg Williams (1 Viewer)

I wouldn't necessarily say NO. We had great personnel on D that year, who is to say another DC wouldn't have been successful....

Also, if memory serves, CSP handpicked GW....I mean it's really a question that doesn't make a lot of sense.....

It seems folks (many....but not all supporters of DA) want to disparage CSP to somehow make the current situation look better? Or something? Odd....
I believe GW's coaching style fit the personnel that we had, especially with Greer, Porter & Sharper. I don't think another DC would have gotten the same results.
 
In that 11 SF playoff game, we did not do a good enough job affecting the head. No way we should have let Smith beat us like that.
Imo the game changed after PT's knockout and fumble on the first drive.
We took the opening kickoff and drove the length of the field without
ever facing 3rd down. Imo again, if PT scores on that play we would have
blown the Niners out of the water
 
Isn't Ryan also the reason we blew that 9ers game in 2011?







I don't think we win 09 w/o his defense, but probably could have won 11 without his ego.
Malcolm Jenkins and Gregg Williams bear most of the blame for costing us the 2011 playoff game v. SF. Those two plus helmet to helmet hit on Pierre. 5 turnovers didn't help either.
 
Bring him in. He's rehabilitated i'm sure.

DistantWebbedAndeancat.webp


AgitatedMarriedImperatorangel.webp
 
You're right, the call did keep us out of the 2nd Super Bowl but I brought it up because Ditka mentioned that he and Buddy probably could have accomplished more together than they did when they were apart. Looking at some of our playoff losses, some of them falls on the shoulders of the defense.
Much of the 85 Bears team is like some of the SBs we have seen over the course of time. Weak league that year, they lost to Miami for its only loss of the season, Miami couldnt even beat the team that Chicago owned in the SB. How the Redskins got a SB or 2 in that same decade. NE in the SB in 85 was a travesty much like how the National title game went with TCU being there.
 
Bring him in. He's rehabilitated i'm sure.


AgitatedMarriedImperatorangel.webp
just about every coach and defensive player has had this mindset and said something similar at some point. there are many many other instances of this talk in the NFL.
that is why they could never prove there was an actual bounty here (not without exposing the many times the NFL has ignored and was ok with it) in the court of law, that's why no players ever got suspended..
 
Bring him in. He's rehabilitated i'm sure.

DistantWebbedAndeancat.webp


AgitatedMarriedImperatorangel.webp
Meh, you're buying the language hyperbole they threw at us. That was one of the most disappointing parts of the case. Most of the media and experienced reporters (like P. King) got amnesia as if they've never been around players before. Even today, several players use war analogies about games: "we're soldiers, and we're going to war." No one takes that literally. The NFL played us on that.
 
Their offense was 7th in yards, which is better than I expected, but...as noted above, the Saints' defense in 09 was bottom half in yards allowed and points allowed. So it's still fair to say the offense was the dominant unit for Payton and think the Buddy Ryan is a bit unfair to Payton. The Bears were 1st in points and yards on defense in 85 just as the Saints were first in points and yards on offense in 09.

Payton had his flaws as a coach, but the issues in our later years were a combination of injuries at the wrong time (our defensive front 7 in 2017 was decimated by injuries to the point we had three guys we'd signed as free agents late in the regular season getting significant playing time in the playoffs, Dez & Rankins & Watson & Josh Hill & the o-line playing seriously hurt in 18, Latavius and Taysom getting hurt in the Bears' game in 2020) and Brees being hindered by age and injuries (Brees was still a quality QB, but 2017-2020 Brees was not 2008-2011 Brees).
Just looked it up. Bears were second in scoring offense that year.

Offense was 7th in yards, as you said, and 2nd in scoring. Then 1st in both on defense.

Many of the 49ers teams of that era were similarly ridiculously good.
 
Much of the 85 Bears team is like some of the SBs we have seen over the course of time. Weak league that year, they lost to Miami for its only loss of the season, Miami couldnt even beat the team that Chicago owned in the SB. How the Redskins got a SB or 2 in that same decade. NE in the SB in 85 was a travesty much like how the National title game went with TCU being there.
That 1985 Patriots team werent a bunch of pushovers. They had been a perennial playoff contender for going almost a decade by then, and they had Pro-Bowlers galore all over the team, several future HOF's on the team (John Hannah, Andre Tippett, HC Raymond Barry) several players who had arguably borderline HOF careers (Stanley Morgan, Irving Fryar, Michael Haynes, Raymond Clayborne), they had a criminally underrated QB in Steve Grogan. Miami, by 1985, wasnt this dogged defensively dominant team like they'd been in the early 80's, their offense, lead by a powerful, strong-armed Dan Marino and the passing game, would dominate the teams' fortunes until Marino's retirement. Miami's best chances to win a SB was in 1982, they were outmanuevered by a far more talented, equipped Niners in Super Bowl XIX and that great "Killer Bees* defense had lost a lot of their sting. Baumhower, Betters, The Blackwood brothers, A.J Duhe, Don McNeal, were aging, about to retire or had already retired. New England just came up and executed a better gameplan that day in early January 1986 against the Dolphins. That day, Patriots were better and we also can't ignore that they had been a good team for close to a decade up until that point. Since 1976, NE had made 4 playoff appearances, had 7-8 winning seasons and only one really terrible losing season.(1981).
 
Meh, you're buying the language hyperbole they threw at us. That was one of the most disappointing parts of the case. Most of the media and experienced reporters (like P. King) got amnesia as if they've never been around players before. Even today, several players use war analogies about games: "we're soldiers, and we're going to war." No one takes that literally. The NFL played us on that.
Nah...I used to speak the language lol trust me I know all about locker room talk.

When I posted those words it's not play. That's the kinda stuff that's spoken to you to light a fire under your arse out there.

Greg didn't play around out there. Saints need to bring that back is all I'm saying.
 
I've wondered the same thing. But, I think if he couldn't do it with one of the best to ever play the game, he's not doing with anyone else. I think the reason that it worked with Gregg Williams is because GW didn't really listen to Sean on how to run the defense.
Gregg Williams had it written into his contract that he had complete control of the defense. I think Payton was barred from the defensive meetings. Joe Vitt had to spy for him. In the fullness of time it should be understood that between GW and Allen the Saines defensively were maybe consistently the worst unit of all time. It wqs horrendous and so bad it essentially cancelled out the offense and a HOF QB.

In the end, that is the story of why Payton couldn't win another ring with Brees. But Payton had his hands all over that mess on the defensive side of the ball.
 
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SR.com members are like ex girlfriends, they want you to fail without them because they are mad you moved on......first.
 
So, I have a feeling Payton is eyeing TB. I could be wrong and not sure if Loomis will allow SP to coach our toughest challenge. I think SP may still want to play with Brady.
 
That 1985 Patriots team werent a bunch of pushovers. They had been a perennial playoff contender for going almost a decade by then, and they had Pro-Bowlers galore all over the team, several future HOF's on the team (John Hannah, Andre Tippett, HC Raymond Barry) several players who had arguably borderline HOF careers (Stanley Morgan, Irving Fryar, Michael Haynes, Raymond Clayborne), they had a criminally underrated QB in Steve Grogan. Miami, by 1985, wasnt this dogged defensively dominant team like they'd been in the early 80's, their offense, lead by a powerful, strong-armed Dan Marino and the passing game, would dominate the teams' fortunes until Marino's retirement. Miami's best chances to win a SB was in 1982, they were outmanuevered by a far more talented, equipped Niners in Super Bowl XIX and that great "Killer Bees* defense had lost a lot of their sting. Baumhower, Betters, The Blackwood brothers, A.J Duhe, Don McNeal, were aging, about to retire or had already retired. New England just came up and executed a better gameplan that day in early January 1986 against the Dolphins. That day, Patriots were better and we also can't ignore that they had been a good team for close to a decade up until that point. Since 1976, NE had made 4 playoff appearances, had 7-8 winning seasons and only one really terrible losing season.(1981).

Raymond Berry wasnt a future HoFer he was a present HoFer inducted in 1973.

Irving Fryar and Stanley Morgan were great players. Haynes wasnt on the 85 Team and I wouldnt rank him that high (unless you are talking about the original Michael Haynes that played for New England). Tony Eason was also capable.

But the blowout definitely affected their historical perception.
 
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