Sean Payton (2 Viewers)

[Alan12]

Where did this thread come from?

If I had to guess...

 

[BG4L]

If I had to guess...

Lol. No, I don't touch the stuff. But this is funny.

 

[BG4L]

The original post was a courageous one but it’s pretty much on the money.

Too many Saints fans are satisfied with being regular season heroes. I’ve seen multiple mentions of 49 regular season wins since 2017 in this thread and no acknowledgement of the fact that the Saints are the first team to win that many games in a four-year stretch without a single Super Bowl appearance to show for it.

The Saints keep underperforming in playoffs. They keep losing to teams that they are favoured to beat. They are 3-4 in the same span during which the team has gone 49-15 in the regular season (including a couple of games they’ve lost due to resting starters). Indeed, the Saints haven’t turned in a dominant playoff performance since the win over the Lions nine years ago. There are myriad reasons for that and not all of them are due to the head coach or coaching, especially this year, but the buck stops with him.

It doesn’t follow that questioning Payton means that one wants him replaced, but he isn’t beyond reproach either. At some point it’s reasonable to ask what the team is doing to identify and address why this keeps happening.

Frankly, when Payton was interviewed during the year and he disputed that the team had been underwhelming in playoffs, citing the no-call, the freak play in the Minnesota Miracle and just asserting we had an “off day” against the Vikings in 2019, I was very concerned that he was searching for external factors to blame. Writing each of those games off as a “bit of bad luck” is folly. We were well down on our usual output in all three.

I’m almost hoping it’s a quarterback issue at this point (it plainly wasn’t in 2017, but Drew has been pretty pedestrian since 2018 in playoff games), because if it isn’t, I’m not persuaded Payton is taking sufficient steps to identify and fix what keeps going wrong. Indeed, with all the anticipated personnel changes this coming offseason, any such capacity for self-reflection may be too late for this version of the team.

Thank you for actually reading my first post, going through it and doing some actual analysis. This is what I wanted. Appreciate it. I agree.

 

[bouxdag]

We have to hold people accountable not just players but coaches as well.

"We" don't really hold Payton accountable, the only who does is Gayle. The only way to REALLY hold him accountable is to fire him and that would be insanity.

All we can do on this message board is complain and assign some higher % of blame to Payton based on the team's performance in the playoffs. That seems to be want you want, some larger acknowledgement from the fan base that Payton is part of the problem.

Even if we make the playoffs next year, I don't think Payton is going to do something dramatically different next year to prepare. He no doubt made the team well aware of the fact we came out flat during last year's playoffs. I don't think there's some secret to playoff coaching he's missing.

Personally I disagree with your entire premise and think our deficiencies getting exposed in the playoffs are more about the personnel and less about Payton. The fact we are as good as we are in the regular season is more about Payton, and less about personnel.

 

[FrenchieATX]

When are we going to start holding him accountable? How many more years of the same thing over and over, get into the playoffs, lose in 1st or 2nd round?

Accountable for starting a broken QB instead of the healthy ones on the roster? Sacrificing the year for brees?
Im furious

 

[stevo3]

I never wished for it tho. Again, some of you aren't reading my post. I wish you would. For others who did really read my first post and other posts that followed. I hope you see what I'm saying. We have to hold people accountable not just players but coaches as well. It goes hand and hand. I never said he wasn't a good coach but I am questioning great as I think others are as well. Only time will tell.

The problem is your logic is flawed. By your logic, being a great coach means multiple trips to the Superbowl. There are only 4 current head coaches that can make that claim and 2 of them have been coaching for over 20yrs.

Payton is a great coach. Here's why:

A. Drew Brees doesn't sniff the records and HOF career without Payton
B. Jimmy Graham was considered a future HOF TE when he left the Saints. How'd that work out for him?
C. CGM's career and especially his 19/20 Season. Nobody saw a perennial top 3 WR when he was drafted.
D. AK41. Look at his college career and tell me he was going to be considered one of the best weapons in football the next 4 years
E. Perennial top 5 Off and Off Line
F. 8-1 in two seasons without his HOF QB
F. 8 Div Championships
G. 9 Playoff Appearances, 2NCCC appearances, 1 SB appearance / win
H. 24th all time wins list of NFL Head Coaches with less years than anyone ahead of him except Mike Tomlin
I. 5th in wins list of current " "
J. If he left the Saints tomorrow, minimum of 25 teams in the league would back up the brinks truck to his front door for his services.

The NFL's history is littered with coaches who coached multiple years and never even sniffed the playoffs, much less SB appearance. Only 24 coaches in the history of the NFL went to 2 or more. It takes more than talent and coaching to get to the SB, it takes alot of luck with injuries, calls, bounces, etc. That's why what TB/BB did is so mind boggling. It doesn't hurt that their division was a dumpster fire for the majority of their time together.

Sean Payton is a great coach. He has flaws like anyone, but that does not take away from what he has done in his tenure as a HC.

 

[NeverGiveUP2]

I guess it is that time of year again... geez....

What do you think GB would look like if Rogers sat for 11 games over the past 2 years.... Sean proved his genius during that time frame.

13-3, 13-3 ,12-4.. I too wanted the gold ring but man... You gonna "hold him accountable" for those results?

 

[MLU]

When are we going to start holding him accountable? How many more years of the same thing over and over, get into the playoffs, lose in 1st or 2nd round?

Good guy but 1 superbowl appearance and win in 15 years (12 years if you subtract 2012 - bounty, 2017 - Minn missed tackle, 2018 - ref screw job) is not really good when you've had a HOF QB like Drew Brees. Also when you've had Kamara, MT, Ram, McCoy and Armstead (who all are potential HOFs) for awhile now too. What gives? Why can't he even get us back to the superbowl? He's good coach but not great b/c this is holding him and the Saints back from being great.

Yes! Damn this guy, his play-calling prowess and his winning seasons and playoff appearances! He totally ruins our draft position every year!?!?!?

 

[Holy Avenger]

Not going to hold it against a guy when the NFL fixed a game. Not saying we win that Super Bowl - hell, it was the Patriots, we probably lose it. But if you're coming at this with a "what have you done for me lately" perspective and you don't understand that a game got fixed then I don't know what to say.

 

[SunshinePumper]

Not going to hold it against a guy when the NFL fixed a game. Not saying we win that Super Bowl - hell, it was the Patriots, we probably lose it. But if you're coming at this with a "what have you done for me lately" perspective and you don't understand that a game got fixed then I don't know what to say.

Real talk

 

[renegadewa]

When are we going to start holding him accountable? How many more years of the same thing over and over, get into the playoffs, lose in 1st or 2nd round?

Good guy but 1 superbowl appearance and win in 15 years (12 years if you subtract 2012 - bounty, 2017 - Minn missed tackle, 2018 - ref screw job) is not really good when you've had a HOF QB like Drew Brees. Also when you've had Kamara, MT, Ram, McCoy and Armstead (who all are potential HOFs) for awhile now too. What gives? Why can't he even get us back to the superbowl? He's good coach but not great b/c this is holding him and the Saints back from being great.

This is so dumb so this is the only reply you'll get from me!!

 

[Buhbooh]

Anyone thinking we should dump Payton hasn’t lived though the 60s,70s,80s,90s teams.

 

[sfbaysaint]

When are we going to start holding him accountable? How many more years of the same thing over and over, get into the playoffs, lose in 1st or 2nd round?

Good guy but 1 superbowl appearance and win in 15 years (12 years if you subtract 2012 - bounty, 2017 - Minn missed tackle, 2018 - ref screw job) is not really good when you've had a HOF QB like Drew Brees. Also when you've had Kamara, MT, Ram, McCoy and Armstead (who all are potential HOFs) for awhile now too. What gives? Why can't he even get us back to the superbowl? He's good coach but not great b/c this is holding him and the Saints back from being great.

There is some validity to your argument. I would not even put the 'ref screw job' game as an excusable game. Despite the bad call, saints had opportunity to win the game. But they could not.

Coaching matters. Packers are a different team with pretty much the same personnel but a different coach.

 

[SunshinePumper]

Anyone thinking we should dump Payton hasn’t lived though the 60s,70s,80s,90s teams.

Yeah, I’m too young to remember the truly bad old days but I do vividly remember the Ditka years and the Billy Joes. The Payton era is the highest level of heaven compared to that.

 

[SunshinePumper]

There is some validity to your argument. I would not even put the 'ref screw job' game as an excusable game. Despite the bad call, saints had opportunity to win the game. But they could not.

Coaching matters. Packers are a different team with pretty much the same personnel but a different coach.

How much of that is A-Rod being unreally motivated by them picking his replacement in rd. 1 of last year instead of receiving help for him? IIRC they had LaFleur last year too and Rodgers looked like he was close to being done.