Shooter incident at elementary school in Uvalde, Texas - 19 children and 2 adults dead (13 Viewers)

[brandon8283]

It's the basic problem. People are ok, until they aren't.

That's a fundemental question. I havent' kept up with this.. I just can't....

Did the kid have issues then, or did it manifest more later. Thought I saw he was living with the uncle?

This is why background checks fundamentally can’t be the full scope of the solution . No one is a problem until they are. While this guy had a history and maybe could have been stopped under the best of circumstances, most of these guys don’t even have that. They have clean records until they murder a classroom full of kids.

You’ve got to deal with the guns, not just the people.

 

[Yatman]

You’ve got to deal with the guns, not just the people.

if the most draconian gun laws are passed, and
if all the gun manufacturers are bankrupted, and
if a top-dollar buyback program is instituted to disarm legitimate firearms owners,

the citizenry will never surrender their guns (as if they should)

u.s.a. will be a smoldering wreck beforehand, and perhaps why

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

if the most draconian gun laws are passed, and
if all the gun manufacturers are bankrupted, and
if a top-dollar buyback program is instituted to disarm legitimate firearms owners,

the citizenry will never surrender their guns (as if they should)

u.s.a. will be a smoldering wreck beforehand, and perhaps why

No one should be looking for a silver bullet approach
But we can can and should make deliberative steps to improve and then in 10-20 years we can feel pride in America becoming a mature country

 

[Yatman]

sounds fine with me

my proposal starts with an unannounced lockdown on gun and ammo purchases -- as in none of any kind -- with an irrevocable sunset in two years, so nobody gets froggy with an exec-order pen

progress can be tracked real-time, not the bs 3-yr delay of fbi stats

my projected outcome is probably opposite yours, but let's see

and if it somehow works, there should be no issue with a nationwide referendum against future gun sales

 

[brandon8283]

sounds fine with me

my proposal starts with an unannounced lockdown on gun and ammo purchases -- as in none of any kind -- with an irrevocable sunset in two years, so nobody gets froggy with an exec-order pen

progress can be tracked real-time, not the bs 3-yr delay of fbi stats

my projected outcome is probably opposite yours, but let's see

and if it somehow works, there should be no issue with a nationwide referendum against future gun sales

The reason that would go poorly is that it’s a forking stupid way to do it and no one is suggesting that as a proposal.

 

[Yatman]

other than your opinion of it, please expand on why it would fare poorly

unless it's that you don't like your bluff being called, as things may not go your way

full disclosure: lifelong gun owner, full supporter of 2a rights, and don't believe for a moment that halting gun/ammo sales will diminish the horrors folks here virtue signal against

but nobody seems to be putting forward anything bold enough to stop the madness

again, please propose a solution... other than the harebrained "take away errybody's guns"

 

[superchuck500]

other than your opinion of it, please expand on why it would fare poorly

unless it's that you don't like your bluff being called, as things may not go your way

full disclosure: lifelong gun owner, full supporter of 2a rights, and don't believe for a moment that halting gun/ammo sales will diminish the horrors folks here virtue signal against

but nobody seems to be putting forward anything bold enough to stop the madness

again, please propose a solution... other than the harebrained "take away errybody's guns"

I just want to understand this - you're saying suspend the 2A to institute a full-stop, instantaneous two-year prohibition on the sale of guns and ammunition. And track the gun-violence data in real-time over the course of two years.

I think you're saying that this is a wager? You're saying that you believe the gun violence data won't show a meaningful change and so then we can stop having the gun control debate?

Not being snarky here at all, just trying to understand what you're getting at in the posts.

 

[Yatman]

I just want to understand this - you're saying suspend the 2A to institute a full-stop, instantaneous two-year prohibition on the sale of guns and ammunition.

don't suspend keep and bear, suspend availability of items for purchase; i realize associated issues but as everyone here keeps stating, "we have to start somewhere"

And track the gun-violence data in real-time over the course of two years.

don't see a prob with this, private sector can crunch more efficiently than doj

I think you're saying that this is a wager? You're saying that you believe the gun violence data won't show a meaningful change and so then we can stop having the gun control debate?

not a wager at all, just a hunch how it'd play out; would be delighted to be proven wrong and have gun violence drop to nil

Not being snarky here at all, just trying to understand what you're getting at in the posts.

many here seem to dither about half-measures to be trialed across a broad spectrum of americana, with no actual teeth in any of it

we've had ample events/time/handwringing about what should be done yet nothing ever is

as i mentioned above, mine is simply a proposal, with no more merit or chance of occurring than any of the other, milquetoast proposals in this thread

 

[superchuck500]

don't suspend keep and bear, suspend availability of items for purchase; i realize associated issues but as everyone here keeps stating, "we have to start somewhere"

don't see a prob with this, private sector can crunch more efficiently than doj

not a wager at all, just a hunch how it'd play out; would be delighted to be proven wrong and have gun violence drop to nil

many here seem to dither about half-measures to be trialed across a broad spectrum of americana, with no actual teeth in any of it

we've had ample events/time/handwringing about what should be done yet nothing ever is

as i mentioned above, mine is simply a proposal, with no more merit or chance of occurring than any of the other, milquetoast proposals in this thread

Thanks - I wasn't challenging it, just trying to understand what you are saying.

I don't think your idea would pass current 2A analysis so that would have to be changed but otherwise I understand what you're getting at. "Wager" was a poor choice of words.

One question though - if the trend in gun violence was meaningfully positive, would you agree to extend the program another two years?

 

[Yatman]

if the trend in gun violence was meaningfully positive, would you agree to extend the program another two years?

i'd be inclined to give it permanence through a national vote

hard to imagine sensible people voting against if the program worked

 

[Mr. Blue Sky]

sensible people

Have you ever met the average American ?

 

[Yatman]

trudat

but i don't think we can get there by relying on bought politicos

 

[Optimus Prime]

It is 10am on the east coast right now

I do not own a gun. If I decide right now "I want to buy a gun" I don't think there should be anyway or any scenario that I should have a gun in my possession in my home by the time I go to bed tonight

Saying "I think I want to buy a gun" should be less like "I think I want to buy a new TV" and more like "I think I want to adopt a baby" - there should be a thorough process

There should be required training/safety/storage requirements (in fact there should be required before you're able to take possession of a gun)

If someone wants to own a hundred guns, they can own a hundred guns. But there should be a record of the 100 guns, exactly what the gun is, serial number, where you got it, and if you sell a gun, who did you sell it to, and that person need to register that they got it from you

And no one needs 100 guns for home defense or hunting, if you want that many guns fine, but once you get past X number of guns there should an extra fee/tax

I believe it's the same for cars, at some point a few cars turns into a fleet which I think there are costs past that threshold

Once the number of guns you have can be described as an arsenal - there should be extra costs involved

I don't think that background checks should be a one and done. That's fine for one handgun but for a certain number of guns or certain type there should be periodic checks

You pass the checks with flying colors today, great. 3 years from now you start tweeting out violent threats, that should show up on someone's radar and someone should show up on your doorstep (side question, why do so many of these shooters seem to post about it or general violent intentions beforehand?)

These are just some thoughts I've had, and I know they are inconvenient, especially for life long responsible gun owners, but I don't think there is any way to solve this issue without causing inconveniences

 

[Optimus Prime]

A Highland Park shooting victim whose face was grazed by a bullet told Insider that the scene at the town's Fourth of July parade was so chaotic that a police officer recommended she get a ride to the hospital because all deployed ambulances were busy treating victims.

Lilli, 18, was among the two dozen parade-goers injured in the mass shooting where at least seven people died. The teen, whose last name is known to us but we are not using for safety reasons, is now coping with the day's trauma as her wounds heal...........

Highland Park teen grazed by a bullet in Fourth of July shooting says a cop told her to find a ride to the hospital because 'there weren't enough ambulances for everyone hurt'

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

Thanks - I wasn't challenging it, just trying to understand what you are saying.

I don't think your idea would pass current 2A analysis so that would have to be changed but otherwise I understand what you're getting at. "Wager" was a poor choice of words.

One question though - if the trend in gun violence was meaningfully positive, would you agree to extend the program another two years?

‘current 2A analysis’ certainly
But how far back would yatman go for his argument to have an audience?