Shooter incident at elementary school in Uvalde, Texas - 19 children and 2 adults dead (1 Viewer)

[St. Widge]

Poverty wages, outsourcing, and the rise of both parents working to make ends meet is my biggest suspect. It's really the biggest most universal change in all the time I've been alive.

That's certainly huge. But there is also significantly more polarizing politics, the devaluing of human life, lack of empathy and sympathy, a broken health care system for both physical and meatal health, and many other things.

 

[Infoman]

Fair enough, but I think I'll take the opinions of NATO and the U.S. Department of Defense on this issue and they clearly believe that .223/5.56 is the best ammunition for killing people.

And, I'll also add that part of the reason I think stopping the sale of the AR-15 in particular, or at least severely limiting it, might help is because like you said, young people, including deranged young people who would shoot up schools, think it's "cool" and it gives them the power fantasy. The AR-15 is so much a symbol of power and freedom in our society, as well as being so readily available, that it may be the thing that tips them over the line from troubled teen to mass murderer. Maybe if they can't get what they think of as a the cool weapon that makes them more powerful than the police and everyone else, they might think twice before trying to go on a shooting spree in a school or elsewhere? So, maybe you are right that in the end it stops nothing, but as I said there is little to no reason for civilians to have them anyway so even if it ultimately fails to do anything, it is still worth the possibility, no matter how small, that it might help.

Possibly, but I find it highly unlikely... I just don't think the lack of a "cool value" is going to deter someone with the mental capacity to murder a classroom of children from carrying out whatever sick and demented task he or she feels like perpetrating that day. I'd personally rather we try something(s) that are logical in nature before we just throw some stuff at the wall and see what sticks... Age restrictions, Red Flags (guy bought 2 weapons in 3 days right?), wait periods, training requirements, mental evals, etc. Those can help... we want the same results... we disagree on an effective way to get there.

 

[rajncajn]

Poverty wages, outsourcing, and the rise of both parents working to make ends meet is my biggest suspect. It's really the biggest most universal change in all the time I've been alive.

Interestingly enough, even the wage and single parent issue doesn't address the fact that even the normal family dynamic has changed drastically. Women no longer want to stay home and maintain the family and men are still very much looked down upon and arguably many aren't suited for, being a stay at home parent.

 

[St. Widge]

While political, I'm just trying to pint out the ridiculousness of the things the government (not just one side) will spend money on because it serves them politically or props them up morally, but when it comes to something more serious, they can't get out of their own way.

ETA: I'd definitely be for your proposal BTW

To be fair, it's not just about "online trolls." It's about the spread of patently false information and made up conspiracy theories that lead to things like the shooter in Wisconsin from a week or so ago. So, I think we do have to look at this on all fronts and one of those fronts in the spread of false information over the internet.

 

[saintmdterps]

Growing up I remember visiting relatives in Northeast Louisiana, Winnsboro to be exact, and every truck had a gun rack with a deer rifle and a shotgun in it. Guns were literally everywhere and people were not shooting up schools.

I wonder what has changed since then?

Looser gun laws?
Video games?
The glorification of violence in movies and on tv?
Inattentive/unavailable parents due to economic pressures?
Social media?
Bullying?

All of the above and then some.

 

[St. Widge]

Possibly, but I find it highly unlikely... I just don't think the lack of a "cool value" is going to deter someone with the mental capacity to murder a classroom of children from carrying out whatever sick and demented task he or she feels like perpetrating that day. I'd personally rather we try something(s) that are logical in nature before we just throw some stuff at the wall and see what sticks... Age restrictions, Red Flags (guy bought 2 weapons in 3 days right?), wait periods, training requirements, mental evals, etc. Those can help... we want the same results... we disagree on an effective way to get there.

I mean, I've given you multiple logical reasons beyond that for targeting that specific weapon and those specific rounds. You just disagree with those reasons. And I want to do all those things above, in addition to making it harder or impossible for a deranged teen to get his hands on a weapon that is better at killing people than any other weapon in the world.

 

[St. Widge]

Interestingly enough, even the wage and single parent issue doesn't address the fact that even the normal family dynamic has changed drastically. Women no longer want to stay home and maintain the family and men are still very much looked down upon and arguably many aren't suited for, being a stay at home parent.

Very few can afford to have one or the other parent stay home with children.

 

[Crzycjunx76]

As for the rest, times change and security needs change. To become stagnant is to deny that measures and countermeasures have been around for centuries.

It is the same "time" here as it is in every other free western nation... and i dont see their schools armed and fortified.

 

[nolaspe]

This is infuriating...

 

[Tapxe]

That's certainly huge. But there is also significantly more polarizing politics, the devaluing of human life, lack of empathy and sympathy, a broken health care system for both physical and meatal health, and many other things.

I'd attribute value of life, lack of empathy and sympathy and broken health care directly to that. I've had my healthcare steadily worsen over the course of my career. It's added to what I have to pay out of pocket while my bosses got richer.

 

[Tapxe]

It is the same "time" here as it is in every other free western nation... and i dont see their schools armed and fortified.

True, but you have to admit we are completely different constitutionally. We have to deal with what we have, not what they have.

 

[rajncajn]

Very few can afford to have one or the other parent stay home with children.

I wasn't disagreeing with his point, just adding another layer to it. In my own family, my wife quit a good future with a marketing group so that she could have a schedule that matched the kids and she could be near them during the day. She's been an asst elementary teacher for over 20 years now. Financially, it's made things a little more difficult, but it's been a blessing for us in every other aspect.

 

[Infoman]

I mean, I've given you multiple logical reasons beyond that for targeting that specific weapon and those specific rounds. You just disagree with those reasons. And I want to do all those things above, in addition to making it harder or impossible for a deranged teen to get his hands on a weapon that is better at killing people than any other weapon in the world.

I have done as much as I can to prove how illogical those reasons are... we are just going to disagree on that... It's like when a drug dealer is killed, another one just like him is just going to step in and do the exact same thing, no matter how un-cool he looks... the function / outcome will be the same. The systemic reason for him to exist, and perpetrate the behavior has to be dealt with... or it's an endless cycle of replacement. And the SKS had the title of "weapon that is better at killing people than any other weapon"... Until the M1... Until the M14.... Until the AK... Until the M16... Until the AR15... Until "insert the next weapon here".

Does the lack of a Tommy Gun stop Al Capone? Does the lack of an AK47 stop "drive by" shootings by gangs in the 90s? We know the answer....

 

[Tapxe]

Interestingly enough, even the wage and single parent issue doesn't address the fact that even the normal family dynamic has changed drastically. Women no longer want to stay home and maintain the family and men are still very much looked down upon and arguably many aren't suited for, being a stay at home parent.

Agreed. But what changed it? Studies have shown that people living in poverty mentally change. Their priorities go from providing comfort to surviving. We cannot ignore the effects of wealth transfer from the low and middle classes imo. It's where kids used to learn manners and how to become an adult. Without that, society falls apart while a few get lavish lives over chaos.

 

[buzd]

Schools also need to be randomly tested, without warning to evaluate their response and adherence to protocols.

This doesn't seem like such a good idea.