Shooting At Jefferson Gun Outlet (1 Viewer)

Semper

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oh, so everyone else has loaded weapons but holstered?
@Semper if you’re staying out of the thread for reasons, that’s understandable
but do you have any insight?
We allow people with a CCW permit to carry a loaded firearm in a holster. However we do not allow drawing and firing from the holster on the range except during classes. Suucides on ranges are a real thing. When we opened we were required to take suicide awareness classes and first aid. We had a fellow kill himself last year on the range. He was shooting for 20 minutes, turned the gilun on himself and pulled the trigger. The gun did not fire the first time, so he did it again. There was simply no way we could have gotten to him in time. I don't have the numbers with me but it is no uncommon. I had a guy come through the front door 1 time with a loaded gun in his hand. It was unpleasant for everyone. No one fired at the guy but guns were drawn pretty quickly and he was educated on how to come to a range with a firearm. We require people who enter our facility to have their firearm cased and unloaded until on the range. Every firearm must have a chamber flag that allows a quick visual that the firearm is unloaded. We also have rules in place for rentals as well. For instance if you show up at the range alone with no gun, we will not rent to you. I don't know what happened here but I would bet money there is camera footage. I have been staying out of gun discussions because it's a dead end. The same people argue the same side, nothing changes after the prayers and sarcasm and then we move on to the next thread.
 

Madmarsha

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We allow people with a CCW permit to carry a loaded firearm in a holster. However we do not allow drawing and firing from the holster on the range except during classes. Suucides on ranges are a real thing. When we opened we were required to take suicide awareness classes and first aid. We had a fellow kill himself last year on the range. He was shooting for 20 minutes, turned the gilun on himself and pulled the trigger. The gun did not fire the first time, so he did it again. There was simply no way we could have gotten to him in time. I don't have the numbers with me but it is no uncommon. I had a guy come through the front door 1 time with a loaded gun in his hand. It was unpleasant for everyone. No one fired at the guy but guns were drawn pretty quickly and he was educated on how to come to a range with a firearm. We require people who enter our facility to have their firearm cased and unloaded until on the range. Every firearm must have a chamber flag that allows a quick visual that the firearm is unloaded. We also have rules in place for rentals as well. For instance if you show up at the range alone with no gun, we will not rent to you. I don't know what happened here but I would bet money there is camera footage. I have been staying out of gun discussions because it's a dead end. The same people argue the same side, nothing changes after the prayers and sarcasm and then we move on to the next thread.
I'm assuming, but I wanted to ask, that these strict gun shop rules about what you're allowed to do or not do are laws that are required to be followed and not "just" rules of the shop owner like a "no shirt no shoes no service" kind of thing?
 
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Semper

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I'm assuming, but I wanted to ask, that these strict gun shop rules about what you're allowed to do or not do are laws that are required to be followed and not "just" rules of the shop owner like a "no shirt no shoes no service" kind of thing?
In WI and IL your firearm has to be cased during transportation unless you have a ccw permit.
 

Madmarsha

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This guy was there with his kids, apparently, and his brother. WTH happened for this to happen?

 

guidomerkinsrules

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We allow people with a CCW permit to carry a loaded firearm in a holster. However we do not allow drawing and firing from the holster on the range except during classes. Suucides on ranges are a real thing. When we opened we were required to take suicide awareness classes and first aid. We had a fellow kill himself last year on the range. He was shooting for 20 minutes, turned the gilun on himself and pulled the trigger. The gun did not fire the first time, so he did it again. There was simply no way we could have gotten to him in time. I don't have the numbers with me but it is no uncommon. I had a guy come through the front door 1 time with a loaded gun in his hand. It was unpleasant for everyone. No one fired at the guy but guns were drawn pretty quickly and he was educated on how to come to a range with a firearm. We require people who enter our facility to have their firearm cased and unloaded until on the range. Every firearm must have a chamber flag that allows a quick visual that the firearm is unloaded. We also have rules in place for rentals as well. For instance if you show up at the range alone with no gun, we will not rent to you. I don't know what happened here but I would bet money there is camera footage. I have been staying out of gun discussions because it's a dead end. The same people argue the same side, nothing changes after the prayers and sarcasm and then we move on to the next thread.
thank you for this
 

efil4stnias

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We allow people with a CCW permit to carry a loaded firearm in a holster. However we do not allow drawing and firing from the holster on the range except during classes. Suucides on ranges are a real thing. When we opened we were required to take suicide awareness classes and first aid. We had a fellow kill himself last year on the range. He was shooting for 20 minutes, turned the gilun on himself and pulled the trigger. The gun did not fire the first time, so he did it again. There was simply no way we could have gotten to him in time. I don't have the numbers with me but it is no uncommon. I had a guy come through the front door 1 time with a loaded gun in his hand. It was unpleasant for everyone. No one fired at the guy but guns were drawn pretty quickly and he was educated on how to come to a range with a firearm. We require people who enter our facility to have their firearm cased and unloaded until on the range. Every firearm must have a chamber flag that allows a quick visual that the firearm is unloaded. We also have rules in place for rentals as well. For instance if you show up at the range alone with no gun, we will not rent to you. I don't know what happened here but I would bet money there is camera footage. I have been staying out of gun discussions because it's a dead end. The same people argue the same side, nothing changes after the prayers and sarcasm and then we move on to the next thread.
wonder how feasible it would be for a place with a shooting range, to have a separate entrance with like double doors-

ie- you enter, then to pass thru to next set, you must drop your weapon in a sort of "drop box" ( like bank teller window ) where it can be verified no round chambered etc - then allowed to come thru second set to retrieve weapon and continue on to range?

just thinkin aloud. Such an unfortunate event and we may never know why this young man made either a dumb snap decision or calculated his demise.
 

Madmarsha

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just thinkin aloud. Such an unfortunate event and we may never know why this young man made either a dumb snap decision or calculated his demise.
I am completely perplexed. You are told to unload and holster your weapon. You take offense to that. Then you fire a warning shot inside a gun store. While your brother and your kids are there. IF that's how it went down. There's obvs a TON we don't know.
 
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I am completely perplexed. You are told to unload and holster your weapon. You take offense to that. Then you fire a warning shot inside a gun store. While your brother and your kids are there. IF that's how it went down. There's obvs a TON we don't know.
This isn't a direct representation of all gun shop guys, but most I've dealt with have an butt crevasse demeanor and are extremely straightforward. Perhaps the guy took it as disrespect and it escalated.
 

Madmarsha

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This isn't a direct representation of all gun shop guys, but most I've dealt with have an butt crevasse demeanor and are extremely straightforward. Perhaps the guy took it as disrespect and it escalated.
Well, that's what I'm assuming, too. I mean, there's no evidence that he went IN intending on starting something. So I'm assuming he lacked the critical thinking skills to assess that his best bet for long-term survival was to go ahead and be angry at the butt crevasses but follow the rules inside of a gun store and grow older and learn some life lessons.


I'm wondering if the customer(s) who fired back and are likely the actual killer of Joshua Williams will face charges?
 
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Madmarsha

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Here's the text of a social media post by Janice Mamaj Hutchinson, aunt of Joshua, sister of his mom.

"My sister, Trudy Edwards Williams, would say this much better, but right now her pain, grief, and possibly unidentified guilt over what she actually had no control of has prevented her from clearly explaining herself. She wants the world to see her Josh who once was a person who could not even dream of such a thing.
Our Josh, my nephew, did not design or plan to do such an heart wrenching thing at the Jefferson Gun Outlet. He was sadly out of control of a situation because of a big time anger control issue. He was a victim of many social ills that plague too many young black men who were born and raised in poverty in one of the wealthiest nations in the world. We thank God that many young black men do survive the atrocities of America, but many do not.
Our hearts go out to family and friends of those who suffered an untimely and senseless death, -Herbert “Noah” Fischbach and Veronica Billot- this is not to exclude our Joshua William.
This is far worst than just the death of a loved one, but the death of other innocent people at the hands of a loved one. This adds a pain and emptiness that cannot be described. This is a side of the murder madness puzzle in New Orleans that I had not felt or given much thought to before now.
I am only the aunt, but Joshua Williams has loving parents, siblings, children, family and friends. He did a monstrous deed, but he was not a monster. He was sick in America. Joshua Williams was a bright child; he could have reached the stars. Than something happened that dimmed his light of hope.
SMH with
😭
."
 

Brad Mojo

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A gun store/range is one of the places where I am EXTRA vigilant to obey the rules and not offend anyone. Sometimes you just have to suck it up and keep your mouth shut, even if you know you are in the right and the other party is in the wrong.
 

efil4stnias

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Here's the text of a social media post by Janice Mamaj Hutchinson, aunt of Joshua, sister of his mom.

"My sister, Trudy Edwards Williams, would say this much better, but right now her pain, grief, and possibly unidentified guilt over what she actually had no control of has prevented her from clearly explaining herself. She wants the world to see her Josh who once was a person who could not even dream of such a thing.
Our Josh, my nephew, did not design or plan to do such an heart wrenching thing at the Jefferson Gun Outlet. He was sadly out of control of a situation because of a big time anger control issue. He was a victim of many social ills that plague too many young black men who were born and raised in poverty in one of the wealthiest nations in the world. We thank God that many young black men do survive the atrocities of America, but many do not.
Our hearts go out to family and friends of those who suffered an untimely and senseless death, -Herbert “Noah” Fischbach and Veronica Billot- this is not to exclude our Joshua William.
This is far worst than just the death of a loved one, but the death of other innocent people at the hands of a loved one. This adds a pain and emptiness that cannot be described. This is a side of the murder madness puzzle in New Orleans that I had not felt or given much thought to before now.
I am only the aunt, but Joshua Williams has loving parents, siblings, children, family and friends. He did a monstrous deed, but he was not a monster. He was sick in America. Joshua Williams was a bright child; he could have reached the stars. Than something happened that dimmed his light of hope.
SMH with
😭
."

parts of the video surveillance released.

you can clearly see that this young man went haywire. Walking the hall and just firing his weapon. There was no attempt to defend himself. This was an act of aggression.

Which now coincides with what you posted above.

But she can take that mia cupla and look in the mirror for they ( the adults around this young man ) let him down as well. Projecting blame helps absolutely no one in this instance.

Id argue that it merely creates a larger divide.
 

Madmarsha

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But she can take that mia cupla and look in the mirror for they ( the adults around this young man ) let him down as well. Projecting blame helps absolutely no one in this instance.

Id argue that it merely creates a larger divide.
Yeah, he was wrong .... but anger.

You are not entitled to an anger as an excuse that causes you to harm other people no matter the source of that anger. You just aren't. And I know no rational person would say you are. You can't use the immorality and injustice of slavery and racism to justify murder. Things need to be called out for what they are with no excuses or blaming. But they aren't and that never breaks the cycle.
.
He had opportunities to be the man that his family thought he was. He only showed them he made all the wrong choices that day. Now his brother and his brother's children are traumatized and his entire family is burdened with a deep heartache and it was entirely avoidable.
 
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guidomerkinsrules

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Yeah, he was wrong .... but anger.

You are not entitled to an anger as an excuse that causes you to harm other people no matter the source of that anger. You just aren't. And I know no rational person would say you are. You can't use the immorality and injustice of slavery and racism to justify murder. Things need to be called out for what they are with no excuses or blaming. But they aren't and that never breaks the cycle.
“They”?
 

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