should nola.com take down picture of 5 year old girl that was shot (1 Viewer)

[RazorOye]

If we treated these shooters like Boston did that bomber, after a couple big man hunts, these guys would stop or move on.

First, I don't think it's true that it would stop.

Secondly, I don't like the casual suggestion that we use that type of force or show of force. Police officers in homes. SWAT teams combing neighborhoods. Armored vehicles rolling down the streets. Too close to a police state for me. I don't know that what's gained (actual or perceived) is worth the privacy that would be given up.

After working with the kids who assume police presence in their neighborhoods and accepted it as fact, a way of life, I can't get behind increasing it to the degree we saw in Watertown as a reasonable solution.

As for the photograph, I can see people objecting to it. I can understand the sentiment.

But similar events are happening, on wider scales, thanks to drones and aggression overseas being conducted by US forces. Agree with the purpose and methods behind the war or not, there's death of innocents/innocence. Those people and communities aren't being spared atrocities and I think being made to face it, ourselves, is necessarily a bad thing.

It's sad and it's tragic. Whether we're facing the death toll of children at the hands of drones a world away or the ones at birthday parties in our backyard.

 

[krushing]

I really thought it was from the shooting in Harvey this morning.

 

[krushing]

First, I don't think it's true that it would stop.

Secondly, I don't like the casual suggestion that we use that type of force or show of force. Police officers in homes. SWAT teams combing neighborhoods. Armored vehicles rolling down the streets. Too close to a police state for me. I don't know that what's gained (actual or perceived) is worth the privacy that would be given up.

After working with the kids who assume police presence in their neighborhoods and accepted it as fact, a way of life, I can't get behind increasing it to the degree we saw in Watertown as a reasonable solution.

As for the photograph, I can see people objecting to it. I can understand the sentiment.

But similar events are happening, on wider scales, thanks to drones and aggression overseas being conducted by US forces. Agree with the purpose and methods behind the war or not, there's death of innocents/innocence. Those people and communities aren't being spared atrocities and I think being made to face it, ourselves, is necessarily a bad thing.

It's sad and it's tragic. Whether we're facing the death toll of children at the hands of drones a world away or the ones at birthday parties in our backyard.

If you don't want to treat it with force, it'll just keep going. If that started in my neighborhood, I'd be more then happy to welcome the police into my house from time to time until they got it under control. Matter of fact, I'd join up and help them. That's a lot better then more dead children. But hey, it's not my neighborhood. I know the folks here would be like the folks in Boston and put an end to it. These folks have condoned this for too long.

 

[FLIPPY]

As disturbing as the pic is, maybe it will help wake some people up....

 

[Galbreath34]

I'd be more then happy to welcome the police into my house from time to time until they got it under control.

Isn't that sort of what the NRA says you need guns to prevent? SWAT teams going house to house and as long as they're there with permission noting unsecured guns, anything else they care to see as of interest?

 

[asmodeus01]

If we treated these shooters like Boston did that bomber, after a couple big man hunts, these guys would stop or move on.

These are completely different situations -- I don't think its a fair basis of comparison.

It's not feasible for the NOPD as it is reportedly understaffed and wouldn't be able to dedicate as many officers to each shooting/mugging/what have you as the BPD did to the alleged bombers. Not to mention, it wasn't strictly Boston Police on the case -- it was a multi-agency effort with the FBI & ATF (among others) also lending manpower & knowledge to track them down.

Then exposure comes into play: the bombings happened at an international event and targeted dozens of people. I wouldn't expect anything less than an orchestrated, citywide (or nationwide if it calls for it) manhunt for the perpetrators of such an attack. In contrast, many of the shootings in inner cities, including New Orleans, are personal in nature or gang related (although I know many innocent bystanders like the child in the article fall victim to this senseless violence). And unfortunately, with a lot of these inner city attacks comes a reluctance to speak to or cooperate with police. Compare that to the suffuse of information & pictures of the event in Boston (which can be dangerous in the wrong hands as perceived internet vigilantes incorrectly painted several people as suspects while poring through the data).

 

[krushing]

Isn't that sort of what the NRA says you need guns to prevent? SWAT teams going house to house and as long as they're there with permission noting unsecured guns, anything else they care to see as of interest?

If they are wanting to take our guns and liberties absolutely!! If they are wanting to work with us to clean up our neighborhoods and stop the child killers,,,come on in and let me show you around. I'd do almost anything if the kids in my neighborhood were dying. . Lets clean it up and then I expect you to leave me be. It took extraordinary measures to get that bad and it's going to take extraordinary measures to clean it up.

 

[Galbreath34]

You don't think with consensual house to house searches in the neighborhoods in question they aren't going to want to run the serial numbers on guns in the "hood" while they're going through house to house?

Do you really think if the NOPD was going through the projects door to door they'd be disinterested or not looking for anything else?

 

[RazorOye]

If you don't want to treat it with force, it'll just keep going.

It is and has been treated with force, and it's still ongoing.

This is a reactive response with little effect. You should be looking at proactive ways that get at roots before advocating something like this, on this scale, for questionable (at best) results.

It's confusing and troubling to me to see someone assume this would serve as the deterrent they think it is.

Just curious, what are you basing your thoughts on? Is it a guess? is it logic? Is it intuition? What do you know about why criminals do what they do? or violent offender (serial) mentality? What do you suppose about their motivations and potential deterrence methods?

You've brought this up before, in other threads, but I've never asked - and you've never explained - where these ideas (that look like assumptions) are coming from.

If that started in my neighborhood, I'd be more then happy to welcome the police into my house from time to time until they got it under control.

I think you underestimate several things here. First, it reveals your relative privilege. You don't have cops banging on your door or doors in your neighborhood with regularity. I don't think you fathom the amount of distrust that such methods have resulted in between people and law enforcement. You say you're okay with it, because it doesn't happen to you. And hasn't. But lots of people I've worked with and talked to, who have it happen regularly, feel very differently.

Once again, I think there's a lack of perspective that's driving your assumptions.

Working with a 15 year old kid who was booked on a first offense (served over a month, later found innocent and released but still served time), who just wanted to watch the Disney channel in his off time, and hearing him talk about how his "goal in life" is to be last on the list of doors the cops kick in. He's innocent. His family is innocent. But the cops beat in his door anyway.

The best he can hope for? That it happens as little as possible.

That's a mentality that really bothered me when he talked about it. And it bothered me more when I realized how pervasive it was for nearly all of the kids I worked with. And none of them appreciated it. None of them felt safer because of it. They felt violated and under constant supervision and suspicion.

You should look into the even the emotional and mental responses of constant surveillance (or threat of constant surveillance) and what that does for your psyche, much less impressionable kids before so casually guessing at how cooperatively willing you'd be to let this kind of thing go on "until it got under control" (which is an ambiguously open-ended criterion)

But hey, it's not my neighborhood. These folks have condoned this for too long.

When I was driving from home to Toronto, during Katrina, listening to the AM talk radio which was all that reliably came in clear enough in the UHaul I was driving, I heard similar sentiments. Similar comparisons.

And it bothered me.

People in Kentucky and Ohio and New York. Talking about how "they" wouldn't turn into savages like these people. They'd work together and cooperate. One guy talked glowingly about how his gated community would respond to such adversity.

But they have no way of knowing. And I always thought it audacious to make such assumptions based on "well, when our lights went out we dot dot dot."

It's not your neighborhood, so how do you know what's condoned and what's not? How are you defining it?

I get that your armchair QB'ing, and there's nothing really wrong with that. But recognize and acknowledge the limitations of that mentality. Some of the things you've talked about you can't or won't know about because you aren't tehre and haven't experienced. Nor have I, really. Just worked with a lot of people who have.

Still, there are other things you're talking about that could stand a little informing from things you could access via google and that might be a good place to start.

If you want to sincerely talk about conditions and reasonable, effective responses to them.

 

[krushing]

You don't think with consensual house to house searches in the neighborhoods in question they aren't going to want to run the serial numbers on guns in the "hood" while they're going through house to house?

Do you really think if the NOPD was going through the projects door to door they'd be disinterested or not looking for anything else?

That's a very tough question. Where I live, we could welcome our local police in and they would look at my arsenal and converse about it. Provably laugh about it. I understand its different in areas where crime is rampant, but how do you ever turn that situation into one like where I live? Agreed its complicated. When crime gets so bad that you worry for your child's life while they sit on the porch. It's time for some deep soul searching

 

[RazorOye]

but how do you ever turn that situation into one like where I live?

I would submit that step 1, for someone who is actually interested in it (not sure that applies to you or not) would be to cease using your neighborhood as a referent. The places you are talking about are not where you live. The experiences aren't your experiences. The responses won't be your responses. And you shouldn't expect them to be analogous in a really meaningful way. So I think the analogies you're using fall short as a result.

And I'd suggest doing a little reading on topics. Whether we're talking some statistical stuff or some qualitative, sociological and ethnographic stuff. Or watching good source material. Or talk to people who work in the neighborhoods or live there. There's lots of things to read that touch on these topics directly and indirectly. So I'd submit that as step 2, a way of moving beyond your neighborhood, geographically and conceptually (your use of your neighborhood here is as an ideal, not merely a physical space)

As a bit of an aside, I really think that some of the things you say you are okay with you wouldn't actually be okay with if they were really happening.

 

[Galbreath34]

As a bit of an aside, I really think that some of the things you say you are okay with you wouldn't actually be okay with if they were really happening.

The first time they dug through boxes or went through dressers and cabinets moving everything to do a thorough search for the missing weapon or a connection to the crime they're after I think would maybe be a little less than an occasion to joke around about the old "arsenal". Not to mention you'd be in your yard talking to another officer while the others conducted the search.

 

[krushing]

I would submit that step 1, for someone who is actually interested in it (not sure that applies to you or not) would be to cease using your neighborhood as a referent. The places you are talking about are not where you live. The experiences aren't your experiences. The responses won't be your responses. And you shouldn't expect them to be analogous in a really meaningful way. So I think the analogies you're using fall short as a result.

And I'd suggest doing a little reading on topics. Whether we're talking some statistical stuff or some qualitative, sociological and ethnographic stuff. Or watching good source material. Or talk to people who work in the neighborhoods or live there. There's lots of things to read that touch on these topics directly and indirectly. So I'd submit that as step 2, a way of moving beyond your neighborhood, geographically and conceptually (your use of your neighborhood here is as an ideal, not merely a physical space)

As a bit of an aside, I really think that some of the things you say you are okay with you wouldn't actually be okay with if they were really happening.

I do care. I hate seeing inncoent lives lost. I hate seeing children raised without a chance. I would not like anyone coming into my house and searching. You are correct about that. But I dont know what I'd be willing to do if I worried about my kid's life everyday. I think I would try to team up with the police and do everything I could do to save those kids lives. I think they should start a program where "trusted neighbors" team and go out with police. If there was a killer on the lose like in Boston and they the police thought he was in my neighborhood, maybe holding my family in a back room at gunpoint, I'd welcome them in.

 

[krushing]

JPSO says quintuple shooting might be linked to New Orleans barroom fight | NOLA.com

Seems like they caught the shooters in yesterday's event.

 

[insidejob]

JPSO says quintuple shooting might be linked to New Orleans barroom fight | NOLA.com

Seems like they caught the shooters in yesterday's event.

Yeah, I saw that this morning. Good thing they were waiting next door at the school for a completely unrelated criminal when the shooting took place or those guys would have gotten away easily. Worst luck ever for those *******s.