Should we give up next year's first to move up in the draft? (1 Viewer)

[LSSpam]

If you mean with St. Louis, Linehan is a year away from being fired. Next years draft picks mean little to him. It'll have to be this years picks.

 

[bergeaux]

I read another poster who said that, were a couple players away from being a contender, unlike the Dolphins or Raiders who need to stockpile picks to build there team up....we pretty much have our core players (specially on offense) so I'm for using some of this years picks to move up to get a Dorsey or Ellis (1st and 2nd rounder) and getting corner and or linebacker help with our 3rd rounder (bpa) and take the best availabe from picks 5-7...but if we cant do that, i say just stay put and and go back to plan A (Rivers)

I would disagree. On offense probably, we just need a TE and maybe another RB. On defense need a LOT of help. DT, OLB, S, CB. We are in a lot of trouble on defense if we don't pick up some rookie talent.

 

[LSSpam]

I would disagree. On offense probably, we just need a TE and maybe another RB. On defense need a LOT of help. DT, OLB, S, CB. We are in a lot of trouble on defense if we don't pick up some rookie talent.

I don't think that's the case. We had the #12 defense in the NFL and were very close in 2006. What happened between 2006 and 2007? Mostly injuries to the defensive line and a decline in our pass rush (Charles Grant, Brian Young).

We're a lot closer to a better defense then you appear to be giving them credit for, particularly if Vilma is healthy.

 

[Saintsfans27]

Well, look at it this way; if we do well enough this year, giving up a 1st round pick won't be that bad since we'd be picking again soon after that point. Personaly, I think it would be worth filling a glaring need to give up a 1st round pick for one year. Swapping picks doesn'r count to me.

 

[bergeaux]

I don't think that's the case. We had the #12 defense in the NFL and were very close in 2006. What happened between 2006 and 2007? Mostly injuries to the defensive line and a decline in our pass rush (Charles Grant, Brian Young).

We're a lot closer to a better defense then you appear to be giving them credit for, particularly if Vilma is healthy.

I think you forget that the injuries were due to an aging veteran D-line. Getting Hollis Thomas and Brian Young to stay healthy is probably going to be less and less likely as the years go on. That's what happen to us last year I think. Also, in 2006 we saw the old man time catching up to Jason Craft and Fred Thomas as the year went on. Those guys were fine most of the year, but our 2006 DBs were better than our 2007 DBs and our starters from 2006 were still on the team

Vilma is definitely going to help, but with MM out for probably half the year, Thomas and Young aging another year and Harper regressing a bit last year, I think we are actually a worse defense than we were in 2007. Not to mention 2006.

 

[LSSpam]

Well, look at it this way; if we do well enough this year, giving up a 1st round pick won't be that bad since we'd be picking again soon after that point. Personaly, I think it would be worth filling a glaring need to give up a 1st round pick for one year. Swapping picks doesn'r count to me.

On the otherhand, a few injuries and you've just given up a top ten pick

 

[bergeaux]

On the otherhand, a few injuries and you've just given up a top ten pick

Exactly

 

[LSSpam]

Vilma is definitely going to help, but with MM out for probably half the year, Thomas and Young aging another year and Harper regressing a bit last year, I think we are actually a worse defense than we were in 2007. Not to mention 2006.

I disagree strongly with that assessment. There is no chance we are, right now, with the addition of Morgan, Vilma, McCray, Gay, the expected further development of Usama Young, Roman Harper, the recovery of Brian Young (who isn't that old yet) and Charles Grant, a worse defense then in 2007.

 

[bergeaux]

I disagree strongly with that assessment. There is no chance we are, right now, with the addition of Morgan, Vilma, McCray, Gay, the expected further development of Usama Young, Roman Harper, the recovery of Brian Young (who isn't that old yet) and Charles Grant, a worse defense then in 2007.

I understand where you're coming from, but I don't think we have progressed yet. I think we are at best status quo. Mostly because MM will be coming back from knee surgery and won't be back on the field until several games into the season. Vilma is coming back from an injury, so you have to be careful there.

In the NFL, you have to continually get better to compete with the rest of the teams. If you stay the same, you have regressed. We have gotten better in some areas, stayed the same in others, but gotten worse in some.

Oh and don't be deceived by only 8 years of experience, Brian Young is 31, which to me is old for a DT in the trenches.

Also let me say, I HOPE that I am completely wrong and will happily eat crow if we don't draft a bunch of defensive talent and still come out better. Fortunately, I have a feeling we are going to have a couple of hits on defense in this draft and we will never know for sure if we were good or bad before the draft. Let's hope so at least.

 

[bergeaux]

On the otherhand, a few injuries and you've just given up a top ten pick

Sorry had to come back to this. Look at San Fran and the Patriots this year??

Just to make it clear... We give up 2009 pick and heaven forbid (I pray against this!) Drew Brees goes down for the season. What then? Now we might end up giving someone a top 10 pick and we get a losing season this year. It's just too much of a gamble.

 

[LSSpam]

Mostly because MM will be coming back from knee surgery and won't be back on the field until several games into the season.

I didn't realize we had a timetable on McKenzie yet.

I guess I should warn you, if we're anywhere near as bad off as you suggest, a bunch of rookies aren't going to be the difference. Our season is largely sunk.

I don't ascribe to that thinking though.

 

[Saint Droopy]

As much as I believe we are going to have a good year, that is like saying, "I'm going to go ahead and borrow $100K now, because I am going to make $100K next year." When you have only made $100K once in the last 8 years. You're betting on something you don't know for sure. It's a risk not worth taking.

OK lets put it like this... lets say Payton and Loomis are both in the last year of their contracts... I don't know what their contract situation is... but lets assume this is a contract year for them.

The ENTIRE WORLD know that we have a huge need for an interior d-lineman... we also have a need at OLB, and a couple other spots... that's why I wouldn't trade the 2nd and/or 3rd rounder in this year's draft for him.

IMHO.. I think this staff is desperate. Not only because a contract may be on the line... but this is the same team that was in the conference title game 2 seasons ago. I seriously doubt they'll miss a 1st round pick for NEXT YEAR's draft if they think that a guy like Glen Dorsey can put us over the top.

Sure I know its unrealistic to believe that one guy will change all of our fortunes... but what if Dorsey CAN put us over the top.

You make moves to win NOW... you don't worry about 1 pick in next year's draft. Now in saying that... the #10 and next year's 1st rounder is all I'd be willing to part with... no more. Maybe a 6th or 7th in this year's draft... but that's about it.

 

[bergeaux]

I didn't realize we had a timetable on McKenzie yet.

I guess I should warn you, if we're anywhere near as bad off as you suggest, a bunch of rookies aren't going to be the difference. Our season is largely sunk.

I don't ascribe to that thinking though.

This probably comes from my philosophy about football. I look at it as though you need to have 7 or 8 SOLID players who play their roll well and then 3 or 4 PLAYMAKERS who make things happen. Fumbles, sacks, interceptions, etc. It's rare that you get a team that is so chocked full of playmakers that say the Indy Colts have on offense or the 85 Bears had on defense.

I guess I look at defense the same way I look at offense in that way.

We have a lot of solid players. SOLID. (except maybe in the DBs last year) That's great, but we don't have enough playmakers (MM and maybe Will Smith when he has a good year?) If we get Vilma healthy, now we have maybe 2 until MM is 100%? We need 3 or 4 real legitimate playmakers. If we get some talent that hits and becomes those playmakers, then I think we become a top 10 defense.

Does that make more sense now?

 

[LSSpam]

Does that make more sense now?

Yes

I don't agree

 

[bergeaux]

OK lets put it like this... lets say Payton and Loomis are both in the last year of their contracts... I don't know what their contract situation is... but lets assume this is a contract year for them.

The ENTIRE WORLD know that we have a huge need for an interior d-lineman... we also have a need at OLB, and a couple other spots... that's why I wouldn't trade the 2nd and/or 3rd rounder in this year's draft for him.

IMHO.. I think this staff is desperate. Not only because a contract may be on the line... but this is the same team that was in the conference title game 2 seasons ago. I seriously doubt they'll miss a 1st round pick for NEXT YEAR's draft if they think that a guy like Glen Dorsey can put us over the top.

That is bad news. I don't think a desperate FO is a good thing.

Sure I know its unrealistic to believe that one guy will change all of our fortunes... but what if Dorsey CAN put us over the top.

You make moves to win NOW... you don't worry about 1 pick in next year's draft. Now in saying that... the #10 and next year's 1st rounder is all I'd be willing to part with... no more. Maybe a 6th or 7th in this year's draft... but that's about it.

This is a losers philosophy. A winners philosophy is to build a team to win over the long haul. It is ALWAYS a gamble to think you can win it all any year. Look at NE last year, they had all the talent and should have, but it didn't happen in the end. It's better to be really dang good for 5 years and have 5 shots at winning it all, than to shoot everything now and hope that this is your year to win. A lot of uncontrollable things have to happen to win it all. There was a thread that made light of calls going a teams way and that DOES happen, not on purpose I hope, but it does. We had it in 2006, the Pats had it in 2007. The Steelers had it in 2005.

The way to win is to build a team that has several years of good runs and one year you have the luck to win it all. If you get really good, you may, just may end up building a team like the 90's Cowboys, 80's 49ers, and the current Cots and Pats.