Shouldn't we go OT in the 1st round? (1 Viewer)

[Dart]

I just don't believe you can have the worst Defense in the HISTORY of the NFL and not go defense with your first pick. We have the elite offense. We are just lacking that pressure on D that forces the other team to give the ball back to our offense.

That's not my point. How elite will our Offense be if we get Drew hurt cos we try playing someone like Charlie Brown at LT and either sucks or gets hurt and we end up with a street FA. I don't care WHERE we draft him (we don't have the cap room to sign an upgrade) but you MUST protect Drew. If he gets hurt that season is over. In that scenario defence is irrelevant.

 

[Domeination]

Mediocre secondaries can become great with an elite pass rush. The Saints haven't had a good pass rush since 2009. The reason they are moving to a 3-4 is to get that extra pressure on the QB. The saints don't have enough good LBs to fill out a 4-3 roster they certainly don't have enough to handle a 3-4. A top pass rushing LB is top priority in the draft.

This. Anyone who thinks we have good enough pass rushers on our team now just b/c we moved to a 3-4 is kidding themself. I think Loomis will find a way to resign Bushrod. Even so, I still think we need to draft an OT to challenge Strief, but we won't do it in the first round.

 

[Dart]

This. Anyone who thinks we have good enough pass rushers on our team now just b/c we moved to a 3-4 is kidding themself. I think Loomis will find a way to resign Bushrod. Even so, I still think we need to draft an OT to challenge Strief, but we won't do it in the first round.

So, if you think we need to draft an OT even if we resign Bushrod, what should we so if Loomis warnings are appropriate (he's said resigning Bushrod will be "tough") and we lose our only starting quality LT in Free Agency? I'm not being flippant here, I'm genuinely curious. At what point does protecting Drew become the #1 priority?

 

[sammymvpknight]

To my estimation we only have one OLB on the entire roster...Galette. Wilson was made for SILB. If there is not a significant improvement on defense the Saints won't have to worry about Brees being upright. They aren't a playoff team.

You have to find a way to resign Bushrod. Continuity is essential...and I would trust him more than a guy like Lane Johnson who shouldn't even be a 1st rounder. The Saints scouting is excellent at finding mid to late round OLs. The only early round guy, Charles Brown, was a complete bust.

 

[Dart]

To my estimation we only have one OLB on the entire roster...Galette. Wilson was made for SILB. If there is not a significant improvement on defense the Saints won't have to worry about Brees being upright. They aren't a playoff team.

You have to find a way to resign Bushrod. Continuity is essential...and I would trust him more than a guy like Lane Johnson who shouldn't even be a 1st rounder. The Saints scouting is excellent at finding mid to late round OLs. The only early round guy, Charles Brown, was a complete bust.

I think that's backwards. If we'd played the entire season, offensively, with the same efficiency and tempo as 2009-2011 we'd have made the playoffs even with the worst D in history. This is an offensive predicated team! If we continue to get worse on Offense we'll waste the best Saints player of all time.

I'd go further. Regarding Bushrod, not only don't I think we'll be able to sign him. We SHOULDN'T resign him! He was our worst offensive lineman, according to both PFF and Football Outsiders last season. He was a ridiculous pick for the Pro Bowl. However some time WILL give him a big contact. If that is us, we'll pay for it in the long run.

As I've said, I don't care where we get our LT from but he MUST be a safe pair of hands and keep our Offense carrying this team forward.

 

[CantonLegend]

The best OTs Joeckel and Fisher will be gone by pick 15 anyone else is a reach IMO.

It's only a reach if the team believes that player will still be available by the time we pick a 2nd time....but considering I don't think the team thinks that, an OT isn't out of the question

If there's a tackle projected in the 20s and we can't find a partner to trade back, it's not a bad option to take him at 15 if we think he can help this team

 

[Dart]

It's only a reach if the team believes that player will still be available by the time we pick a 2nd time....but considering I don't think the team thinks that, an OT isn't out of the question

If there's a tackle projected in the 20s and we can't find a partner to trade back, it's not a bad option to take him at 15 if we think he can help this team

This. The while concept of a reach is an odd one. Unless you're taking the guy ROUNDS to early, you can't really "reach" in any specific round. When you consider a high percentage of all players drafted, irrespective of round, will be out of the league within 4 years, if you can find an impact player, who cares if you take him 5 spots earlier than "the internet"thought he'd go? The guy they wanted you to take had taken as many pro snaps ad your guy and isn't a sure thing either!

Bruce Irvin was apparently a reach. Some said Aldon Smith was too. It's nonsense. The "value" of these guys is so subjective at this stage in their careers, I don't see how anyone can determine who is a reach. I always remember a reporter telling Belichick that Brady was the best draft pick of all time and asking "How did you know he'd be so good?". Belichick laughed at the guy and said "Are you kidding? If we'd known how good he'd be we'd have taken him in the first round!"

 

[Wicket6]

It's only a reach if the team believes that player will still be available by the time we pick a 2nd time....but considering I don't think the team thinks that, an OT isn't out of the question

If there's a tackle projected in the 20s and we can't find a partner to trade back, it's not a bad option to take him at 15 if we think he can help this team

well this is conceptually flawed. This would make a pick being a reach or not dependent on when the team picks again.

The thing is, every single draftpick should be a marriage between value, fit and need and having bad value to fill a need and/or a fit is called reaching.

the same thing with people saying we draft BPA, nobody drafts BPA because it makes no sense to draft BPA. If you draft an amazing prospect who is a pure 5Tech and you run a 4-3 defense you dont help a team at all. If you draft an amazing QB but you already have Brees youre not helping a team.

People look so simplistic to a draft at times it saddens me

 

[Kurgan]

Well, the broncos drafted von miller, the perfect 3-4 olb, who had played only 3-4 olb, and they've run nothing but a 4-3 since. Sometimes the talent is just too much i suppose

 

[Merl]

Losing Bushrod won't affect our cap issue at all. He isn't counted against it and we're still 31st out of 32 teams in terms of being over! If/when we lose Bushrod we won't get an upgrade in FA. We really aren't going to be major players in FA this year!

And to the guy who'd trade 20 sacks of Brees for 10 more on D... um WHAT?!? You'd willingly expose the ONLY reason we're an elite team to THAT kind of injury risk? You get we're not playing Madden with injuries turn off right here, yeah? We are an offensive team, of Drew goes down it doesn't matter if we drafter DeMarcus Ware mk. II on defence; we're done. You don't play around with those sorts of things!

If Fisher or Joeckel is there, you take them at 15. If not you look long and hard at Johnson or trading down. If neither of those options are available you take a defensive player and consider trading one of next years picks to get back in to the second to get a tackle, unless you have someone you LOVE later in the draft.

OT is our biggest concern right now; we won't be able to keep Bushrod, much less get Long, Clady etc. We do not have a staying LT on our roster and we must protect Drew "The Franchise" Brees.

PS. The reason the sack numbers are low isn't cos the line is great btw. Our tackles last year were poor. However Drew has incredible awareness, a lightning fast release and sneaky athleticism to escape rushers. But if you think the increased pressure didn't lead to more turnovers and effect the whole Offense, you're be wrong.

The problem with that idea is that in order to trade back into the 2nd round using a 2014 pick is that it will cost a 2014 1st round pick or a 2nd and a 3rd. Teams generally look at future picks as valued 1 round less than the current year is valued at.

 

[Dart]

well this is conceptually flawed. This would make a pick being a reach or not dependent on when the team picks again.

The thing is, every single draftpick should be a marriage between value, fit and need and having bad value to fill a need and/or a fit is called reaching.

the same thing with people saying we draft BPA, nobody drafts BPA because it makes no sense to draft BPA. If you draft an amazing prospect who is a pure 5Tech and you run a 4-3 defense you dont help a team at all. If you draft an amazing QB but you already have Brees youre not helping a team.

People look so simplistic to a draft at times it saddens me

The issue is your definition of "value". Fisher and Joeckel are consisted better pro prospects than Lane Johnson. Therefore their "value" is greater. But could be completely wrong. There are countless examples of this. "Value" is entirely subjective and unless you work for the organisation making the pick you can't know their evaluation of the player. One team could have Lane Johnson ranked as the #1 OT and take him over the other two. We'd call that a reach and a bad pick but he could have a better career.

It's a a widely misused term is my point and I really don't think it applies to selecting a guy 5 spots ahead if where "the internet" ranks him. Perhaps the guys ding the drafting are right and know more than the rest of us... Just possibly??

One last thought. Akiem Hicks was considered a reach. How's that working out?

 

[CanadaSaint2006]

The best OTs Joeckel and Fisher will be gone by pick 15 anyone else is a reach IMO.

Probably, but let's wait and see how free agency pans out. If the LT-needy teams make signings, and the teams that lose those LT's believe they have capable replacements on their rosters, then things could easily change.

 

[409forever]

agreed about free agency being important in what teams will look for in the draft.also though, with the rookie salary scale teams are very willing to move up and down as far as they like.look what those dirty birds did two years ago.

 

[CantonLegend]

well this is conceptually flawed. This would make a pick being a reach or not dependent on when the team picks again.

The thing is, every single draftpick should be a marriage between value, fit and need and having bad value to fill a need and/or a fit is called reaching.

the same thing with people saying we draft BPA, nobody drafts BPA because it makes no sense to draft BPA. If you draft an amazing prospect who is a pure 5Tech and you run a 4-3 defense you dont help a team at all. If you draft an amazing QB but you already have Brees youre not helping a team.

People look so simplistic to a draft at times it saddens me

I agree with your stance on BPA and you're not really arguing against what I was saying about reaching either

Most teams have the chance to draft every round so they consider if the player will be gone by the time they pick again..,.or if they will be gone by the time a potential trade partner picks again

Obviously it'd be a reach to draft a guy projected at the end of the 2nd round when we pick at 15 but that's only if the team can say with any certainty that he will still be available by the end of the 2nd round

I think the draft is a lot murkier than that

The middle of the first round and into the 2nd round is where teams can make a lot of different picks...a tackle could go at 15 or 33 and you may not want to miss out on him

 

[CitySaint]

It's about the value of the spot you're picking, what prospects are available? You don't reach for a tackle who has bottom of the 1st value while passing on a top 5 pick who dropped into your laps. There is NO WAY taking the likely tackles who will be available seems logical to me. There will be an overload of talent at 15 to choose from with greater value.