Slave or Enslaved Person? (2 Viewers)

[guidomerkinsrules]

I get it. Words have meaning.

Slave is an outside term which dehumanizes the people making it seem less bad.

Enslaved person brings that humanity back to it and makes it clear how wrong it was.

I know many won't agree and will hem and haw about it. I was once afraid of change too. Now I know it's the only thing that is permanent.

this is really all that needs to be said

 

[Mr. Sparkle]

if using the word "enslaved person" instead of "slave" is what sends someone into an 'anti-progressive" realm, i have some news for you about where they were before having this topic addressed

Its been death by a thousand cuts. But that's another discussion.

i just posted this in the 'moving movie scene' thread - it's a good if limited primer into the perceived and actual problems with racialized language



one poster came in with his nonsense about ThinkSpeak - but your post above seems in support of thinkspeak - controlling the idea of the word - but language is SUPPOSED to EVOLVE as we do - language is a reflection of culture and if the culture says we should update our ideas from centuries ago, then we probably should
there are TONS of terms for race and gender and other arenas that you would feel uncomfortable using but your grandparents were just fine using (not just yours, all of our grandparents)
what has been lost by making sure we use both male and female pronouns (or some other device), what has been lost by using the term African-American (or whatever terms will take its place in 10 years)?

It's a great scene and a great movie. But what's funny watching that now is that we are now all the way back to using "Black" (though only with a capital B) - but that was from a few months ago so we are probably 3 terms removed from that.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/pr/2020/07/29/washington-post-announces-writing-style-changes-racial-ethnic-identifiers/

i would hope that you agree that the way slavery is taught in this country is woefully inaccurate and reductionistic - using "enslaved person" is an entryway into helping is teach that period more honestly and purposefully - i hope you are on board with that

I have no problem with my kid being challenged to reassess his language or think hard about any particular topic. But policing his language on slave vs enslaved person seems really (really) pedantic, especially since probably 99.9% of Americans would not consider the use of "slave" to connote support of slavery compared to "enslaved person." This isn't about using a slur (or I guess, not yet?)

I consider myself fairly intelligent and openminded and I just laughed when he told me. I've slept on it, I've done some limited reading on it, and I keep coming back to 'this is dumb.'

 

[SystemShock]

The employment thing certainly didnt but you posted it anyway

It did.

Whether you say "employed person" or "employee", either indicates that person is in an employment state. Whether you say "slave" or "enslaved person", either indicates that person is in a slavery state, and already know that slavery is a dehumanizing, forced upon condition on an individual.

 

[brandon8283]

Its been death by a thousand cuts. But that's another discussion.

More like progress by a thousand baby steps, but yea.

 

[brandon8283]

It did.

Whether you say "employed person" or "employee", either indicates that person is in an employment state. Whether you say "slave" or "enslaved person", either indicates that person is in a slavery state, and already know that slavery is a dehumanizing, forced upon condition on an individual.

connotation vs. denotation on Vocabulary.com

A connotation is the feeling a word invokes. But take note! A denotation is what the word literally says. If these words were on a trip, connotation would be the baggage, and denotation would be the traveler.

www.vocabulary.com

 

[Tapxe]

But it doesn't, unless you think slavery is some sort of benign state. It is the condition of slavery that we reject and find dehumanizing.

IMHO it is different simply because the word slave is ambiguous. It can refer to inanimate objects in many different applications. Enslaved person is definite. There is no ambiguity or possible confusion.

Look at it this way, changing the term would then allow us to use the word slave for mechanical and IT operations again.

 

[SystemShock]

Do you really still not understand the distinction being made here?

I understand that you are trying to find a distinction where there isn't one.

 

[gavinj]

Its been death by a thousand cuts. But that's another discussion.



It's a great scene and a great movie. But what's funny watching that now is that we are now all the way back to using "Black" (though only with a capital B) - but that was from a few months ago so we are probably 3 terms removed from that.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/pr/2020/07/29/washington-post-announces-writing-style-changes-racial-ethnic-identifiers/

I have no problem with my kid being challenged to reassess his language or think hard about any particular topic. But policing his language on slave vs enslaved person seems really (really) pedantic, especially since probably 99.9% of Americans would not consider the use of "slave" to connote support of slavery compared to "enslaved person." This isn't about using a slur (or I guess, not yet?)

I consider myself fairly intelligent and openminded and I just laughed when he told me. I've slept on it, I've done some limited reading on it, and I keep coming back to 'this is dumb.'

Just tell your son to inform his teacher that he’s thought about it and he’s decided to use the phrase “kidnapped victim of labor traffickers” rather than “enslaved person”. The student shall become the master. Oh wait, did I just say master? I meant scholarly expert.

 

[brandon8283]

I understand that you are trying to find a distinction where there isn't one.

You're not listening.

 

[brandon8283]

The student shall become the master. Oh wait, did I just say master? I meant scholarly expert.

I don't know if you were aware or not, but "master" is also definitely on the chopping block in the near future, in certain contexts.

 

[SystemShock]

IMHO it is different simply because the word slave is ambiguous.

Is it?
When you first heard of the movie "12 Years a Slave", did you struggle with the meaning of the title?

 

[gavinj]

I don't know if you were aware or not, but "master" is also definitely on the chopping block in the near future, in certain contexts.

Yeah, that’s pretty apparent from my post. I’m the one who started the “master bedroom” thread in here a while back.

 

[jboss]

It did.

Whether you say "employed person" or "employee", either indicates that person is in an employment state. Whether you say "slave" or "enslaved person", either indicates that person is in a slavery state, and already know that slavery is a dehumanizing, forced upon condition on an individual.

Ok, so whether you say "intellectually disabled" or "r***rd" indicates someone's intellectual state just the same? Or do words have meaning?

 

[jboss]

I understand that you are trying to find a distinction where there isn't one.

You're hopeless

 

[Tapxe]

Is it?
When you first heard of the movie "12 Years a Slave", did you struggle with the meaning of the title?

Geez, ok, you've beaten me down. We won't see eye to eye on this, but it doesn't matter. Stick to your ways. I'll move on with my life as this is settled in my vernacular.

Have a good day sir.