So, Just How Bad Is It in Iraq? as per Christian Science Monitor (1 Viewer)

Mr. Littlejeans

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http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0312/p01s09-woiq.html?page=1


“In a statement posted on its website last week, the Islamic Army – believed to be made up mostly of former regime elements – lamented the recent killings of two of its Mosul-based leaders, identified as Abu Fatima and Abu Ibrahim, at the hands of Al Qaeda in Iraq and called on its followers not to be distracted by this and to instead "focus all their energies on hitting the enemy: the Americans and the Shiites and peshmerga forces collaborating with them."


If you take the time to read the article, you realize the sheer impossibility of what we're trying to do in Iraq. We can spend 100 years there but nothing short of installing an iron-fisted dictatorship is going to keep the sectarian violence under control.
Especially when sect leaders tell their followers to ignore attacks made on them by AlQaeda and instead focus on U.S. forces and their Iraqi collaborators.

My point is, if we've got the money and manpower to take on an endless and ridiculously expensive task like this in Iraq, why the hell can't we attack some of our own domestic problems that by comparison would be a piece of cake. Amazing how money is no object if you can put a bogus "National Security" stamp on even the most frivilous expenditure.
 
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LSSpam

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We can spend 100 years there but nothing short of installing an iron-fisted dictatorship is going to keep the sectarian violence under control.
This article is about a specific region, Nineveh/Mosul


I also reject the idea that Iraq is full of savage beasts who can't be trusted with a representative government. We may not being doing it right, but it's not that it "can't be done". They're certainly capable of having a peaceful democracy under the right conditions.
 

Saintman2884

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Jeans, do you completely believe CSM in this article? They have been known to post sensational arguments and shape them as the definite truth. They wrote a viewpoint on the death penalty a few years back that basically said that it should be abolished and be damned what the victims family went through. I myself found that article to be a bit insulting because I have lost members of my family to violent crime and don't like some SOB's like them telling me to forget and forgive. BS, BS so much it stinks even hearing it to talk about it now. On Iraq, I think their should be a phased withdrawal like it was in Vietnam but calculated. I just don't like these people.
 

LSSpam

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Jeans, do you completely believe CSM in this article?.
I don't know why not. It's almost certainly (largely) true. But it's also about, again, a specific region/city. It's not about all of Iraq and Mr. Littlejeans is incorrect to represent it as so.
 

Saintman2884

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Spam, maybe its me I just have had a love hate relationship with the media in general. I know its been beaten to death on this board and some people will call me out for saying it now, I just do not trust them on most issues. I think they can abuse their responsibilities just like the politicians they expose. And they have this holier then thou attitude that makes them feel so much more superior to people like ordinary people. and maybe Reb Saint is right when he says its about other views, its right, its about other views, but that other view could be wrong, or partially right, or slanted. I have a hard time tolerating them at some points. It can be Fox News or MSNBC, I just don't like them, maybe its a bias or some faults they don't want to admit they have
 

Jonesy77

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This article is about a specific region, Nineveh/Mosul


I also reject the idea that Iraq is full of savage beasts who can't be trusted with a representative government. We may not being doing it right, but it's not that it "can't be done". They're certainly capable of having a peaceful democracy under the right conditions.
I would go so far as to say as long as religion (yes, including Christianity) is calling the shots, a nation cannot have a "peaceful democracy"
 

TPS

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They need to talk with members of our military to get their facts straight. :mad:

TPS
 

LSSpam

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They need to talk with members of our military to get their facts straight. :mad:
They did talk with members of the military and those quotes are in there. It's actually a pretty good article. Did you read it?

It's not exactly what Mr. Littlejeans' partisan rhetoric presented it to be.
 

thewyrm

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Saintman, I am anti death penalty. I'm not a proselatyzing whack job about it though. One of my favorite things in life is the hypocracy of politics. Liberals are pro abortion but anti death penalty, conservatives are pro death penalty but anti abortion. . . huh?
 

TPS

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>>They did talk with members of the military and those quotes are in there. It's actually a pretty good article. Did you read it?

No. Everything we're doing over there is good. We're rebuilding schools, mosques and libraries. The media is lying.

TPS
 

Jonesy77

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Saintman, I am anti death penalty. I'm not a proselatyzing whack job about it though. One of my favorite things in life is the hypocracy of politics. Liberals are pro abortion but anti death penalty, conservatives are pro death penalty but anti abortion. . . huh?
No, religious conservatives are anti-abortion. I am a pro-abortion conservative. Chances are if the parents aren't prepared to have a child, the world is better without it.

I am pro death penalty.
 

LSSpam

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No. Everything we're doing over there is good. We're rebuilding schools, mosques and libraries. The media is lying.

TPS
:hihi: I think it's awesome when act exactly like what you claim to despise. That's the sort of empty partisan sarcasm i'd expect to see from the "you hate America' crowd ;):9:
 
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Mr. Littlejeans

Mr. Littlejeans

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Re: Dictator
Sorry , I didn't mean to sound like I was trying to suggest we install a dictator. Just a sad truth that this region is not one I would label "ripe" for democracy.

Re: Christian Science Monitor
The reporter is actually free-lance, his work shows up in lots of reputable news outlets. Just so happened that I saw this in Christian Science monitor

RE: speak to military
As far as talking to members of the military, it states in the article that they did. Of course military sources routinely ask not to be named, not surprisingly (look at Fallon)

Re: Only one region
I know this is only about one region of Iraq, but it's a significant region, and we can't claim
"victory" if there are still areas like this one that are clearly in a state of relative anarchy, and we're well into the "surge is working" charade.
 

LSSpam

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Re: Only one region
I know this is only about one region of Iraq, but it's a significant region, and we can't claim
"victory" if there are still areas like this one that are clearly in a state of relative anarchy, and we're well into the "surge is working" charade.
Of course the surge is (appears to be) working. The entire reason the focus is now shifting to Mosul is other areas have calmed down security-wise considerably, freeing up troops and resources to try cleaning out Mosul.
 

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