" [Some] JPSO deputies won't work [voluntary] Bonnabel [HSFB game] detail after players kneel during anthem" (1 Viewer)

[dtc]

I certainly wouldn't contest any of the above; the issue is that the "kneeling" as symbolic act has overtaken the purpose, it seems to me. For that I could very well be wrong and there may be many people involved in intelligent, substantive, and productive conversations as a result of the act of kneeling for the anthem. Perhaps these are just the beginning steps on the path to real change. Obviously, dead citizens and mass incarceration haven't been.

But for many people the only take they get out of it is that the flag and anthem that stands for it are being dissed. That view may be entirely wrong, but if it is the perceived message it IS the message, fair or not. Just look at the police who refuse the Bonnabel detail ...

I completely disagree. You and I were ignorant of this issue until now I presume and here we are talking about it. I learned there was more to the anthem than I ever knew. I think it's been intentionally hidden from us, as well.

Dead citizens and mass incarceration has not worked. Waving the flag and singing a song with hidden meanings hasn't worked either.

What's wrong is that your perception of what's happening has been clouded by people selling politics.

The act, as you put it, has brought us to this dialog and I hope this dialog will allow us to recognize the problem. It may force some to even consider there is one if they'll take theif fingers out of their ears and hear the message instead of buying into the right wing nonsense telling them it's anti-Murika.

 

[MLU]

JPSO: To Protect and Serve.

Unless football players kneel to protest ***hole cops abusing theor authority.

What they should do is get out there and kneel with them. That would go along way to showing the kids that they are concerned with their welfare.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

But for many people the only take they get out of it is that the flag and anthem that stands for it are being dissed. That view may be entirely wrong, but if it is the perceived message it IS the message, fair or not. Just look at the police who refuse the Bonnabel detail ...

"Those people do/thinks things differently than I do...they must be wrong"
This is an essential difficulty we have in this country, the inability to see differences as valid and important (and no, I'm not excluding myself from this)

 

[SystemShock]

But for many people the only take they get out of it is that the flag and anthem that stands for it are being dissed.

I tell you, Political Correctness is destroying this country

 

[saintmdterps]

And I think the problem is a lack of respect for law enforcement. Instead of starting arguments and fight with the police, just comply, let them do their job and if they infringe on your rights. Let a lawyer handle it.

Yes!! This strategy works every time! Comply with the nice, well-trained officer and you won't be dead. Your public defender, who only has your case to work on, is very well-paid for his/her efforts will do a bang up job on your behalf. Why don't we all see the inherent virtue in this path??

Brilliant!!

 

[The Unrest Cure]

"Those people do/thinks things differently than I do...they must be wrong"
This is an essential difficulty we have in this country, the inability to see differences as valid and important (and no, I'm not excluding myself from this)

Certainly there is a lack of patience and real attempt at understanding the problems that MANY people - problems that occur due to color, creed, gender, etc. - face in the USA. I'm not trying to diminish that at all.

My concern is that the fracas over the anthem is that it has significantly detracted from the purpose: to reveal long-standing and structural injustices to citizens of the US. Rather it has entrenched otherwise good people who now simply see a subset (professional sports athletes) who are using a political symbol to make a statement. Some - perhaps many and more than I give credit for - see it as an honest attempt to bring publicity to the injustices; many more, I feel, simply see it as bashing the flag & anthem. Perhaps that is necessary to bring the injustices into stark relief. I would fear that choosing such a specifically-loved symbol such as the flag or national anthem would only foment opposition to what is clearly an obvious injustice: the plight of minorities regarding criminal justice, the enforcement of laws and protection of rights.

Kneeling before the anthem - and thus the flag and country it represents - is extremely high profile. The danger with such a high profile is that as quickly as it can bring significant awareness of the cause it can be just as quickly horribly misinterpreted. Maybe those are just the eggs for the omelet, in this case.

 

[Saint_Ward]

I'm not big on using the SSB as a protest, but it's it kind of ironic with being "PC" goes the other way?

Here are kids doing something not politically correct, which should make the right wingers happy, but are outraged, because it's not the kind of PC thing they really mean... like just being able to call someone a ****** (downs syndrome), queer, and other choice words.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

Certainly there is a lack of patience and real attempt at understanding the problems that MANY people - problems that occur due to color, creed, gender, etc. - face in the USA. I'm not trying to diminish that at all.

My concern is that the fracas over the anthem is that it has significantly detracted from the purpose: to reveal long-standing and structural injustices to citizens of the US. Rather it has entrenched otherwise good people who now simply see a subset (professional sports athletes) who are using a political symbol to make a statement. Some - perhaps many and more than I give credit for - see it as an honest attempt to bring publicity to the injustices; many more, I feel, simply see it as bashing the flag & anthem. Perhaps that is necessary to bring the injustices into stark relief. I would fear that choosing such a specifically-loved symbol such as the flag or national anthem would only foment opposition to what is clearly an obvious injustice: the plight of minorities regarding criminal justice, the enforcement of laws and protection of rights.

Kneeling before the anthem - and thus the flag and country it represents - is extremely high profile. The danger with such a high profile is that as quickly as it can bring significant awareness of the cause it can be just as quickly horribly misinterpreted. Maybe those are just the eggs for the omelet, in this case.

TBH, when I hear this line of reasoning it distills to something like, "don't push too hard, the status quo is about to change if you let it"
which is backwards - that status quo must be pushed prodded and provoked to change
the same argument was made about gay marriage - "don't push too hard for marriage equality, it will turn off the fence sitters" then 2 months later SCOTUS changes marriage equality

and to the bolded part, the horrible (deliberate) misinterpretations already exists, exposing it is probably the best thing these protests can do

 

[daybreaker]

It does, but sometimes people need to take the smart route and obey the authority rather than try and fight it. It is similar to when you were a kid. Did you ever think you were on such an even playing ground with your parents that you would argue when they told you to do something that they felt was right? Heck no, it got you punished or whipped.

Obey authority.... unless that authority is a bla^H^H^HDemocratic president. Then we can call him all sorts of names.

Also in what world do we demand more maturity from teenagers than police officers? And just go read any facebook comments about this. These kids are WAY more mature than the majority of the "adults" in this state.

They are peacefully protesting an issue (that isnt even specifically about the JPSO), and a bunch of adults are vilifying calling them horrible names, talking about what they would do to them if they were their kid, etc.

You wonder why this community has an issue with authority? Look at how the authority responds to the slightest bit of criticism.

 

[GrandAdmiral]

Obey authority.... unless that authority is a bla^H^H^HDemocratic president. Then we can call him all sorts of names.

Also in what world do we demand more maturity from teenagers than police officers? And just go read any facebook comments about this. These kids are WAY more mature than the majority of the "adults" in this state.

They are peacefully protesting an issue (that isnt even specifically about the JPSO), and a bunch of adults are vilifying calling them horrible names, talking about what they would do to them if they were their kid, etc.

You wonder why this community has an issue with authority? Look at how the authority responds to the slightest bit of criticism.

Like I said earlier, they're following their leader unfortunately.