Some perspective on the Cooks and his comments (1 Viewer)

BoNcHiE

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Cooks was wrong to make the comment he did last year about touches. Any WR who puts himself above the team is wrong. But I also think we need some perspective on how common it is.

This isn't to excuse Cooks, but to say that if Cooks does stay, it doesn't mean things have to be bad. The coaches/staff should be in a position to manage such a situation, get him on board, and move on. If other teams can do it, we can do it.

Great receivers who've complained about touches/role the past two years:

Dez Bryant
Julio Jones
DeMaryious Thomas
Jimmy Graham
Doug Baldwin
Antonio Brown
Odell Beckham Jr.

+ lesser guys like Sanders, Randle, and Crabtree. (When Wide Receivers Whine About Targets, Does it Work? -)

Every person I just listed was on a playoff team last year and didn't get traded as a result of their outburst. So clearly they didn't hamper their teams either.

The point is, if we can't get value for Cooks, it's not the end of the world. You make it work. And if we can't make it work, then that's partially on the coaches. I refuse to believe that Cooks is some super-malcontent while the above guys were all really just angels when they made their complaints.
 

Blessedog

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I agree but I also want to point out that none of those receivers had a threat to their targets like Cooks does. Thomas is a problem is for Cooks and he knows t.
 

HogsNSaints

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Cooks was wrong to make the comment he did last year about touches. Any WR who puts himself above the team is wrong. But I also think we need some perspective on how common it is.

This isn't to excuse Cooks, but to say that if Cooks does stay, it doesn't mean things have to be bad. The coaches/staff should be in a position to manage such a situation, get him on board, and move on. If other teams can do it, we can do it.

Great receivers who've complained about touches/role the past two years:

Dez Bryant
Julio Jones
DeMaryious Thomas
Jimmy Graham
Doug Baldwin
Antonio Brown
Odell Beckham Jr.

+ lesser guys like Sanders, Randle, and Crabtree. (When Wide Receivers Whine About Targets, Does it Work? -)

Every person I just listed was on a playoff team last year and didn't get traded as a result of their outburst. So clearly they didn't hamper their teams either.

The point is, if we can't get value for Cooks, it's not the end of the world. You make it work. And if we can't make it work, then that's partially on the coaches. I refuse to believe that Cooks is some super-malcontent while the above guys were all really just angels when they made their complaints.

I totally get what you're saying, but how many of those guys complained about touches the day after scoring 49 points and winning by 28? The comments Cooks made were disappointing and ridiculously selfish.. Not saying I'm dying to get rid of him.. but come on dude
 

ELLIASJWILLIAMS

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Cooks was wrong to make the comment he did last year about touches. Any WR who puts himself above the team is wrong. But I also think we need some perspective on how common it is.

This isn't to excuse Cooks, but to say that if Cooks does stay, it doesn't mean things have to be bad. The coaches/staff should be in a position to manage such a situation, get him on board, and move on. If other teams can do it, we can do it.

Great receivers who've complained about touches/role the past two years:

Dez Bryant
Julio Jones
DeMaryious Thomas
Jimmy Graham
Doug Baldwin
Antonio Brown
Odell Beckham Jr.

+ lesser guys like Sanders, Randle, and Crabtree. (When Wide Receivers Whine About Targets, Does it Work? -)

Every person I just listed was on a playoff team last year and didn't get traded as a result of their outburst. So clearly they didn't hamper their teams either.

The point is, if we can't get value for Cooks, it's not the end of the world. You make it work. And if we can't make it work, then that's partially on the coaches. I refuse to believe that Cooks is some super-malcontent while the above guys were all really just angels when they made their complaints.
Yeah but the caveat is that him complaining about more touches was A after a game we won and B seems to be tied to jealousy of Michael Thomas. Those guys were like...throw me the damn ball because im the best player...but Cooks at one point was being outplayed by Thomas and Thomas got the ball more and he appeared to be upset. Thats the difference.


When 4 of the inital responses to your OP point out Thomas as the likely reason for the outburst then that should tell you something. Those guys made best player outburst...Cooks outburst was...I feel like I'm better than what I'm being asked to do aka.... i was given a role this week and I didn't like it...and then they didn't throw me the ball...so im going to complain.


edit :I'm trying to find that other quote for you...but I think it's a def red flag that he not only had the "clothes mouths don't get fed" outburst in Nov but he had a more subtle passive aggressive response during hte bye week about the same thing. Still searching.


edit: Found it

In his two previous games, Cooks had a total of five catches for 44 yards -- and he said Monday that “one of the things I feel like in those two games … I probably just wasn’t being used right, in my opinion.
http://www.espn.com.au/blog/nflnati...d-saints-found-a-better-way-to-use-him-sunday

So he started out passive aggressively mentioned he didn't think he was being used right...then is like yeah its about winning, but really I'm happier because i got more touches, and i was unhappy because i wasn't getting those touches. I thought that came off as meish. Especially when Snead I'm sure was trying to get 1000 yards to better his contract case and he was losing touches and never said a mumbling word. He just worried about doing something with the touches that he had. Cooks came off as I need more to get going. We'll do something witht he touches. Take a short screen 90 yards instead of getting tackled for a 4 yard gain.

Yeah man...he's got that me attitude and I think thats what's an issue you can't win with guys that don't put the team first. I'm sure they value him...but this has been brewing all season the moment it appears as though Thomas started to take over the role that he was initially playing. It became obvoius in Camp that Thomas was ascending and that X receiver role that Brandin had been playing since 2015 as the focal point of the offense is really made for a bigger WR like Colston or Thomas. So that means they gave Thomas a lot of X snaps and Cooks more Z snaps and he was not happy about it because the Z is typically the clear out receiver in this scheme.
 

St.Dan

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Cooks was wrong to make the comment he did last year about touches. Any WR who puts himself above the team is wrong. But I also think we need some perspective on how common it is.

This isn't to excuse Cooks, but to say that if Cooks does stay, it doesn't mean things have to be bad. The coaches/staff should be in a position to manage such a situation, get him on board, and move on. If other teams can do it, we can do it.

Great receivers who've complained about touches/role the past two years:

Dez Bryant
Julio Jones
DeMaryious Thomas
Jimmy Graham
Doug Baldwin
Antonio Brown
Odell Beckham Jr.

+ lesser guys like Sanders, Randle, and Crabtree. (When Wide Receivers Whine About Targets, Does it Work? -)

Every person I just listed was on a playoff team last year and didn't get traded as a result of their outburst. So clearly they didn't hamper their teams either.

The point is, if we can't get value for Cooks, it's not the end of the world. You make it work. And if we can't make it work, then that's partially on the coaches. I refuse to believe that Cooks is some super-malcontent while the above guys were all really just angels when they made their complaints.
Not all of them made the playoffs. The Bronco game was huge in screwing us out of a playoff berth, but indeed the Broncos missed the postseason, too.
 

Ti Rider

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People forget how this game works - a big market team calls a small market team to inquire about the availability of a player (possibly because that player ONCE grumbled publicly about not getting enough targets). The big market team's FO leaks to the sportsmedia they are interested in the player. Instead of reporting the truth that the big market team called to inquire whether the small market team is even interested in a trade it gets reported as the small market team is "shopping" said player. The sportsmedia does this time and time again - it drives up their ratings, gets them views. The big market teams love it because it can drive a wedge between the player and his current team making a trade more likely. Then the sportsmedia begins to speculate on the terms of the trade usually heavily favoring the big market team.

Never forget a few seasons ago when the Saints were cutting several players to get under the salary cap (the "fire sale" off-season) the New York Giants FO called the Saints inquiring about a trade for Cam Jordan. The next day it was reported everywhere the Saints were "shopping" Jordan and speculating about how he might be had for as little as a second round pick (sound familiar?). It came out many, many weeks later that it was the Giants that had initiated contact and Jordan was never available.
 

AgnesT

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People forget how this game works - a big market team calls a small market team to inquire about the availability of a player (possibly because that player ONCE grumbled publicly about not getting enough targets). The big market team's FO leaks to the sportsmedia they are interested in the player. Instead of reporting the truth that the big market team called to inquire whether the small market team is even interested in a trade it gets reported as the small market team is "shopping" said player. The sportsmedia does this time and time again - it drives up their ratings, gets them views. The big market teams love it because it can drive a wedge between the player and his current team making a trade more likely. Then the sportsmedia begins to speculate on the terms of the trade usually heavily favoring the big market team.

Never forget a few seasons ago when the Saints were cutting several players to get under the salary cap (the "fire sale" off-season) the New York Giants FO called the Saints inquiring about a trade for Cam Jordan. The next day it was reported everywhere the Saints were "shopping" Jordan and speculating about how he might had for as little as a second round pick (sound familiar?). It came out many, many weeks later that it was the Giants that initiated contact and Jordan was never available.
This! Thank you!!
 

Analyze This

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Can you refresh my memory of when Julio complained about touches. I actually heard him say at the start of this year he was happy that Kyle's scheme spreads the ball around. He stated that it makes it difficult for teams to simply target taking him out of the game. Also, most of these guys want the ball to help the team win, so they say. Cooks said closed mouths don't get fed after winning by 20+ points. I see a big difference.

After reading your many post about this situation, we all know where you stand. I recommend that you take a step back and let things play out. Im neutral about the Cooks situation. However if he does not want to be here and/or play in the offense he needs to go. I want the team to win and could care less about how many yards, catches, and touchdowns Cooks gets.

Calm down and let it play out. We have had a top offense every year that Sean has been here; losing Cooks will not change that. Maybe the FO finally understands what it takes to get better than 7-9.
 

Igordão

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It is different when the team loses and the player says: "just throw me the ball and i will get it done!" than when a player complain after a team win (destroying the other team).
 

ELLIASJWILLIAMS

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In a nutshell the guys you listed complained after losses because they felt like they could have done more. He complained he wasn't used correctly in the previous 2 games which would have been Chargers/Falcons then said it was all about winning. Well we won the Chargers game just like we won the Rams game he complained about...so that was CLEARLY more personal and not JUST about winning. Now thats not to assassinate his character. I don't think he's a cancer but it does show some selfish tendencies that aren't really team oriented more than they are Cooks oriented. He's a prideful kid and you can tell he wants the ball...but he didn't seem to like the fact that Thomas was put on equal ground as him as a rookie. Thats a personal issue with a player or not liking being in the shadow of another player and thats a whole different ball game from just complaining about not getting touches in a loss because you felt like you could have helped them win.


Based on what Thomas did as a rookie I could only see them expanding his role...which would also possibly mean a decrease for Cooks and I think he knows that. He wants to go somewhere where he can be THE GUY. Works out better for both involved if we allow him that opportunity so long as we don't just give it to him without us getting what we feel is proper compensation for his talents. Accepting less is not an option....otherwise he'll just have to deal with it and he wont go rogue because your tape is your interview process.
 
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BoNcHiE

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In a nutshell the guys you listed complained after losses because they felt like they could have done more. He complained he wasn't used correctly in the previous 2 games which would have been Chargers/Falcons then said it was all about winning. Well we won the Chargers game just like we won the Rams game he complained about...so that was CLEARLY more personal and not JUST about winning. Now thats not to assassinate his character. I don't think he's a cancer but it does show some selfish tendencies that aren't really team oriented more than they are Cooks oriented. He's a prideful kid and you can tell he wants the ball...but he didn't seem to like the fact that Thomas was put on equal ground as him as a rookie. Thats a personal issue with a player or not liking being in the shadow of another player and thats a whole different ball game from just complaining about not getting touches in a loss because you felt like you could have helped them win.
I'm on my phone right now, so I can't give a detailed response. But no, they did not all complain after a loss.
 

ELLIASJWILLIAMS

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I'm on my phone right now, so I can't give a detailed response. But no, they did not all complain after a loss.
Touche

One other point for you to discuss is that outside of two of those guys they are all in run 1st offenses where touches are probably scarce as it is. Cooks complaining about touches in a pass first offense is kind of sketch. Cooks complaining about his use in 3 games with 2 of them being wins and saying its about winning is also sketch. It's kind of hard to have 2 Alpha Male WR's which outside of them kind of being the same guy is why it would have been hard for the Cardinals to keep Larry/Boldin. Finally we have 2 top 10 WR's and 0 top 10 anything defensive players other than Jordan. I'd entertain the offers too if it meant possibly getting a good defender to cut down on giving up 28.1 pts per game.
 

Slim K

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You're disregarding the possibility that it may have been Cooks who is asking to be traded. None of those guys did that.
 

BreesusSaves

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Here's my take...

When Ingram lost his marbles on the sidelines against Arizona, it happened in the heat of the moment. The locker room photos show him congratulating Hightower and his statements after the game and the rest of the week were apologies and all about how he made a mistake, he can't be a distraction, it's about the team, etc. Then against the Falcons after hitting 1,000 yards, Ingram went out of his way on the sidelines to make sure Payton knew how much he appreciated having the chance to reach 1k.

Jimmy Graham, a guy labeled as a locker room problem by many here... in 2014 after the big contract dispute, Drew Brees threw 5 touchdowns against the Steelers. Not only was Graham catchless, he had ZERO targets. He didn't say a single word of being upset, tweet, or post on instagram. He talked about it being a good team win, how he just wants to win, and he knows he'll get his fair share in other games.

Cooks waited a full day to make his comments. He knew exactly what he was doing. It wasn't a "heat of the moment" reaction, he fully thought about what he was going to say and then said it. That's a big problem. That's not a guy you want in your locker room, especially when your entire offense is built on passing the ball to 8 different guys every game.
 
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BoNcHiE

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Touche

One other point for you to discuss is that outside of two of those guys they are all in run 1st offenses where touches are probably scarce as it is. Cooks complaining about touches in a pass first offense is kind of sketch. Cooks complaining about his use in 3 games with 2 of them being wins and saying its about winning is also sketch. It's kind of hard to have 2 Alpha Male WR's which outside of them kind of being the same guy is why it would have been hard for the Cardinals to keep Larry/Boldin. Finally we have 2 top 10 WR's and 0 top 10 anything defensive players other than Jordan. I'd entertain the offers too if it meant possibly getting a good defender to cut down on giving up 28.1 pts per game.
What did those wins make us? 1-4? 5-8? I don't remember, but continuing to say "but it was after a win!!" is kind of disregarding the fact that the win was absolutely meaningless and we were still clearly not making the playoffs. At that point, he may of started to think money more than he should. Would he of made those comments if we were 9-2? 6-3? Probably not, but I can't prove it.

D. Thomas' comments were probably worse because they were 2-0 at the time.
 

Flipx99

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Standing by themselves, I really don't see Cooks comments as a reason to part ways with him. They are definitely not the kind of thing SP likes to see - but they were not horrible by NFL standards.

Were those comments just the tip of the iceberg for what has gone on behind the scenes? I have no idea, and I don't really like "taking sides" when I know I don't really know the full story.

I recall that when Cooks came out if college, there was a good bit of discussion about how hard he trains, and his production seems to be indicative of that. Makes me want to give him the benefit of the doubt.
 

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